Getting prosecuted from Dashcam?

[bigmike20vt]

Forgetting the us vs them cyclists and cars argument for a second.... some of the changes to the rules regarding bikes make things pretty complicated as well..... where bikes now get priority over cars where in the past it was not the case.

regarding the 1.5m rules...... i give cyclists as much room as i can (which is easy when it is just one of them) but when they insist on riding 2 abreast or it is a large group of them out on a weekend meet up it essentially makes it almost impossible to get past them. There needs to be a bit of give and take with cyclists. if a cyclist is going to ignore a cyclelane because it is not good enough for them / or they dont want to stick to a sensible speed on them, the least they can do is ride single file on a road and try to not hold traffic up.

and maybe it is a Cambridge thing but the amount of cyclists who think its ok to get wasted and cycle home without lights on its quite amazing.

 

[Bear]

regarding the 1.5m rules...... i give cyclists as much room as i can (which is easy when it is just one of them) but when they insist on riding 2 abreast or it is a large group of them out on a weekend meet up it essentially makes it almost impossible to get past them. There needs to be a bit of give and take with cyclists. if a cyclist is going to ignore a cyclelane because it is not good enough for them / or they dont want to stick to a sensible speed on them, the least they can do is ride single file on a road and try to not hold traffic up.

This is a misunderstanding of the situation which drivers seem to fall into frequently. The reason they dont ride in single file is to prevent drivers squeezing past a long line of riders. Imagine a group of say 10 riders, if they ride single file you would have to overtake a line of 10 riders, whereas is you overtake a group of riders two abreast, you have to pass half the length of cyclists. Its safer to overtake for both parties, so long as you are able to overtake on the other side of the road. If it isn't safe to overtake on the other side of the road, you wont get a driver squeezing their way along a long line of cyclists.

 

[bigmike20vt]

This is a misunderstanding of the situation which drivers seem to fall into frequently. The reason they dont ride in single file is to prevent drivers squeezing past a long line of riders. Imagine a group of say 10 riders, if they ride single file you would have to overtake a line of 10 riders, whereas is you overtake a group of riders two abreast, you have to pass half the length of cyclists. Its safer to overtake for both parties, so long as you are able to overtake on the other side of the road. If it isn't safe to overtake on the other side of the road, you wont get a driver squeezing their way along a long line of cyclists.

but if they are 2 abreast with the outside rider near the middle of the road, then on many of our roads that means the 1.5m gap is going to be quite the challenge.

as for the long line of cyclists...... i see your point however am not sure which is worse at that point. Thankfully it isnt an issue i see *that* often. but 2 abreast on fairly narrow roads i see all*** the time.


***slight exageration perhaps

It is a shame people cant just respect Wheaton's law regardless of if on a bike or in a car.

 

[Simon]

Is it a section 172 or not ?

 

[Bear]

but if they are 2 abreast with the outside rider near the middle of the road, then on many of our roads that means the 1.5m gap is going to be quite the challenge.

as for the long line of cyclists...... i see your point however am not sure which is worse at that point. Thankfully it isnt an issue i see *that* often. but 2 abreast on fairly narrow roads i see all*** the time.


***slight exageration perhaps

You arent expected to give the 1.5m gap if you are overtaking on the other side of the road else traffic coming the other way would be close passing as well. Unless the cyclist on the outside is riding on the center line, there should be sufficient space. I would say riding on narrow country roads is exactly the place where riding two abreast makes sense as thats typically where someone will squeeze between a cyclist and on coming traffic

 

[Freakbro]

Whilst I don't disagree, what one do we stop?

Cars or cyclist's? Both have the right to use the road, and there currently isn't a hierarchy of users.

For some reason when the government/council decides to invest in cyclist's it's normally a marked area on the road that just reduces the road width to something impossible. Which then causes cars to feel more comfortable overtaking because they think they're not in the cycle lane so it must be ok.

Umm, somebody hasn't been keeping up to date, as yes there is a hierarchy of road users in the Highway Code now.

 

[Nasher]

You arent expected to give the 1.5m gap if you are overtaking on the other side of the road else traffic coming the other way would be close passing as well. Unless the cyclist on the outside is riding on the center line, there should be sufficient space. I would say riding on narrow country roads is exactly the place where riding two abreast makes sense as thats typically where someone will squeeze between a cyclist and on coming traffic

Highway code says you should cycle 0.5m from the curb. So the 1.5m gap when overtaking assumes that.

You can't cycle near the center and then cry when people brush past.

The highway code update says cyclists should give way to pedestrians at junctions as well. How often do we see that happen? (Never). Not even on zebra crossing most of the time. I wonder how much footage of that gets sent in...

 

[Bear]

Highway code says you should cycle 0.5m from the curb. So the 1.5m gap when overtaking assumes that. Any further out and you are eating in to that space yourself. It may not be possible to leave that much room.

You can't cycle near the center and then cry when people brush past.

Yes you can, its a should not a shall. For instance, if there is a pinch point a cyclist would typically move to the center of the lane to prevent a car squeezing past at the pinch point like a pedestrian island, or if its a narrow lane a cyclist might move out and take the lane to prevent an overtake round a blind corner. Most of these things are basic road craft to the cyclist but an ignorant driver that is clueless of any road craft might see it as a cyclist hogging the road. That is not to say some cyclists arent bellends riding all over the place but bear in mind the state of our roads with potholes all over the place, riding in the center of the lane is the only safe place to ride sometimes

 

[jpaul]

that said the cyclists on the champs Elysee at end of tour def france do set an enviable standard for closeness to kerb .. but they have better roads/drain-covers/cleaning ...

Practically in Cambs I never ride less than 1m from the kerb, roads are too bad condition, so motorist would/should always have to bridge white line to pass for all roads I use.

 

[Bear]

that said the cyclists on the champs Elysee at end of tour def france do set an enviable standard for closeness to kerb .. but they have better roads/drain-covers/cleaning ...

Far smoother riding in the gutter compared to the cobbles

 

[snowdog]

or, aren't metres away when there is nothing coming towards us.

I never understood cyclists who want at least 1,5 meter of space.

Even here in Rotterdam NL you will get places where there is not such space and people will pass at 50cm/0.5m from a cyclist, and nobody will make a fuss...
If you want to co-exist drop those ridiculous expectations of space for cyclists.

I think countries where the law or regulations recommend 1,5 meters are absolutely insane, backwards morons who have no clue how cars and cyclists should co-exist. Note that I am a cyclist as well very often (especially when I go to the pub for some beers ) and make well over 1000 km every year on my bike... Unless I was hit I would not care for cars passing closely.


Anyhow, I can type a long message how the law here works but it's a different country but long story short, I would fight it, to at least see the evidence, there must be a really dangerous situation for him to be prosecuted. But at the same time, I wonder if the rozzers don't have anything better to do, have all the knife crime/stabbings been solved in the UK? I doubt it, ******* should go after real crime and not minor traffic misdemeanours.

 

[Bear]

I never understood cyclists who want at least 1,5 meter of space.

Even here in Rotterdam NL you will get places where there is not such space and people will pass at 50cm/0.5m from a cyclist, and nobody will make a fuss...
If you want to co-exist drop those ridiculous expectations of space for cyclists.

I think countries where the law or regulations recommend 1,5 meters are absolutely insane, backwards morons who have no clue how cars and cyclists should co-exist. Note that I am a cyclist as well very often (especially when I go to the pub for some beers ) and make well over 1000 km every year on my bike... Unless I was hit I would not care for cars passing closely.


Anyhow, I can type a long message how the law here works but it's a different country but long story short, I would fight it, to at least see the evidence, there must be a really dangerous situation for him to be prosecuted. But at the same time, I wonder if the rozzers don't have anything better to do, have all the knife crime/stabbings been solved in the UK? I doubt it, ******* should go after real crime and not minor traffic misdemeanours.

As you say, you are from NL so hardly in the same situation. Cycling is very well catered for with a genuinely well thought out cycling network. Where cyclists have to share road space there often isn’t space to give 1.5m space as you say and you certainly won’t pass at that distance at 60mph like some do in the UK. The situations aren’t comparable, I lived in Den Helder and Alkmaar for year on my travels.

 

[Nasher]

I bet they don't get 1.5m in France either and French drivers are all maniacs. They aren't crying about it.

Some people just like to make a fuss for attention. Realistically you aren't going to get 1.5m space outside of main roads in most of Europe. It's not dangerous to pass close as long as it's slow. If you fall off just infront of a car your getting squashed either way.

 

[Simon]

It’s literally the Highway Code and what the retired traffic police will look at when reviewing the video.

 

[snowdog]

Den Helder is hardly comparable, Alkmaar I do not know well enough, I was mainly thinking about these roads:

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Google Maps

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Google Maps

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Where trams, cyclists and cars share a small space and it goes well.

What ****** me off in the UK is that cyclist often take up the center of a lane and block overtaking, instead of keeping to the kerb. I actually get angry and am imagining knocking them off to the kerb. Stay to the side (left in UK's case) ffs.
I also don't understand cyclists who stay between cars in case of congestion, always filter, why would you want to behave like a car on a bike, grrrr.

This is a normal passing distance in the city, not 1,5m :

 

[Bear]

Some people just like to make a fuss for attention.

Yes you and several other people are exhibiting just that type of behaviour. It’s the law just deal with it instead of whining

 

[Brun]

1.5m might seem like an arbitrary number but I think the point is to make motorists only consider passing cyclists when the oncoming lane is clear. The worst overtakes I've had are when they think there's enough space between me and whatever's coming in the other direction. It shouldn't need pointing out that drivers will also - subconsciously or otherwise - err towards the cyclist in those circumstances.

 

[Bear]

Den Helder is hardly comparable, Alkmaar I do not know well enough, I was mainly thinking about these roads:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

Where trams, cyclists and cars share a small space and it goes well.

Yes it does work very well and I love that there is a cycling culture there but it isn’t comparable. Cars aren’t likely to pass at large differential in speed because bikes would be in a properly designed cycle route on faster roads. Where there is shared use in the examples you show above, the speed tends to be pretty low, so the element of danger is far less.

In town when I’m close passed and they are travelling 5 to 10mph faster, it’s not an issue. When it becomes 30 or 40mph it does.

 

[snowdog]

the point is to make motorists only consider passing cyclists when the oncoming lane is clear.

And I'm saying this shouldn't be a factor, it rarely is here, bikes and cars should learn to coexist side by side.

Of course I will make space when there is space, but I will not hold off an overtake when the oncoming lane is not clear, I will just pass with less space, as will at least 50% of the drivers over here, nobody makes a fuss.

 

[snowdog]

Yes it does work very well and I love that there is a cycling culture there but it isn’t comparable. Cars aren’t likely to pass at large differential in speed because bikes would be in a properly designed cycle route on faster roads. Where there is shared use in the examples you show above, the speed tends to be pretty low, so the element of danger is far less.

In town when I’m close passed and they are travelling 5 to 10mph faster, it’s not an issue. When it becomes 30 or 40mph it does.

Hmmmm, I do have a few 60 zones where that is not the case, mostly parrellel roads, e.g.:

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or Dykes:

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I must admit I do tend to slow a bit as cyclists can be erratic, but I've been on both sideS ( cyclist and driver) on this road and sometimes people (or me) will come zooming by with 30 mph diffrerence with less than 1,5m, but still, people do not make a fuss... And cyslist stay near the kerb/side, In the UK i see cylists claimign space as if they are a car and it really bothers me.