Gibson les Paul?

beachBOYken

beachBOYken

beachBOYken

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Hi

I'm thinking about buying myself a Gibson let Paul electric guitar, I do own a few guitars but nothing special and I've always fancied spending some dosh on something like a Gibson.

Looking at the les Paul range there is a lot of choice so I'm a bit lost on what I should be looking at. I have a budget of £2000 but ideally I would like to include an amp in that as I sold my last amp so only play my acoustic presently.

Many thanks:)
 
The main thing. This is the most important is do not buy Gibson blind online. You would be sending a lot back before finding the right one. Always buy in person to save both time and your sanity.

Then, I'd stay away from 2015 range. For me, a Les Paul is a traditional instrument so the new G-force auto tune shouldn't be there but some people like them. Personally I don't find it a problem tuning. Also they made the fretboard wider this year, the neck is also different too, lots of hate online about that. Then there is the brass nut, which is a great idea but then you look at the £5k historics which people say are better, they don't have them.

So I would buy used, then you got lots of choices, I mean like hundreds of models down the years. They got traditional, classics, custom classics, studio, deluxe, plus etc etc. you need to find whether you want chambered or weight relieved or solid. Find out about the year that has Richlite fretboard and avoid them. And also some years of LP are better than others. It's like wine! Do not rush it, try lots and only buy it when you bond with it.

I picked one up actually yesterday, a 2001 Custom Shop Class 5, part ex a PRS for it. Came to way less than a new 2015 standard.

Yd4tMOI.jpg
 
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2012 and 2013 was a good year if you want a recent one. Otherwise late 90's and early 2000's are good years.

But you still need to try them all.

Oh, for £2k, you can get a really nice PRS, you can get a mint PRS used secondhand for about £1200 these days. Found a custom 22 with a rosewood neck and fretboard on a forum for that much.
 
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By the way, careful if you are buying from eBay or gumtree or anyone random, there are a LOT of fake Gibson's out there, a lot. From a distance it's very hard to tell on some, some are easy but just beware, if the price is too good then alarm bells should ring loud in your head.
 
Are you still playing, or just collecting now Ray? :D ;)

hehe

I like the look of some of those gibsons; you cannot argue that they're an ugly guitar, but goddamn they are uncomfortable to play! For me that has a lot to do with the contoured body and the skyscraper like stand-off of the strings from the body. Plus the bridge saddle is all kinds of wrong (just like buying a guitar via mail-order) - I've never liked that design.
Purty wood, though.

Go have a mooch in guitar guitar in epsom, they've probably got a bazillion types of gibson guitar in there.

Tell you what I really did like about some of the gibsons is the headstock mounted automatic tuner system :eek:


If you're into alternate tunings for your guitar (I am) then this is a great way of re-tuning and keeping track. I currently use pitchlab on my phone as it can store custom tunings, but having that built into your headstock is kindof cool.
 
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Turned into a bit of both tbh ! nobody need 6 guitars but at least they are all different I guess.

Don't worry, they all get played :)

With regard to the new Les Paul, this is what I think of it.

1 - G-Force

Good idea and useful if you change tuning a lot, especially if you gig. Saves having to have 2 of the same guitars. But the problem is they do break, I know someone on another forum's broke and obviously you need to replace it and that's not cheap. Some people also concern with the weight of it and change the balance of the guitar, I am not sure I buy that as each LP weights different.

2 - The brass nut

Again, good idea, although I think this is Gibson's way of giving themselves room for error in the manufacturing process. There is a very little gap where the strings ought to sit above the first fret. Once you get it right, you just leave it there forever. So if the nut is cut correct from the factory then there shouldn't be any need to adjust at all.

3 - Removable pick guard

Love this idea. The best of the lot

4 - New logo

It's cosmetic but I think it looks like a 5 year old drew it with a massive marker. It's a step down from the old one.

5 - Hologram on the back

Good idea in terms of preventing fraud but it won't last long…it’s a hologram. Not biometrics. The Chinese will figure out a fake one of that in no time. Plus do they have it make it so ugly? It looks like George Costanza from Seinfeld waving at you. A simple Gibson Logo hologram would suffice

6 – New neck profile.

This is what turn most people off. You can not look at the headstock, you can remove the G-force tuner, you can just not look at the hologram, you can leave the pickguard as it be but the neck is the most important part, it's where your hand feels either comfortable or not. Overnight they just changed it as opposed to offer the neck shape as an option like PRS with Pattern Regular vs Pattern Thin.

7 – New gold case

I like the old case, it's small, the new one whilst it looks okay, they didn't make the top flat so you can't stack them, i.e. you can stack PRS cases. So why make it rectangular when you can't stack it?

Of course, that's before we have the 30% price rise in some LP models. You now need to spend custom shop money in the current model to get a real traditional Les Paul without the 2015 appointments. Let's face it, there wasn't anything wrong with the old one to begin with !

I agree that it is not the most comfortable guitar to play, the weight, the back of contour, the bridge seems like they haven't given it enough thought and almost a design to compensate the doggy workmanship error, high bridge to compensate wrong neck angle. Lack of contour means less carving and less labour and the weight is as a result of using mahogany that is grown fast, which they tried to solve with chambering and weight relief.

Saying all that, hitting a chord on the Les Paul through a good amp just has that sound though. It is just right and then you forgive it.
 
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Have you played a Les Paul before? If so how did you find it? I have a 90's Les Paul Custom and boy it's heavy to gig/play for long periods.

I think Gibsons are fantastic bits of kit and I wouldn't sell mine easily but if I didn't have one and had to pick a ££££ guitar it definitely wouldn't be a Les Paul. Saying that, you could do much worse than going for a Les Paul.

With regards to amps, again it depends what sort of music you play, and possibly what sort of guitar you're going to get.

I've always believed the adage: a poor amp can make a great guitar sound rubbish, a good amp can make a poor guitar sound good.

For tube amps I’ve heard the Hughes & Kettner TM5C 5w tube are nice little amps, Fender Super-Champ X2’s are not bad. A friend of mine has one of the 5w Blackstar HT5 tubes which is really quite versatile. Personally I have a Vox AC15 H1TV (handwired reissue) and was the best guitar-related purchase I have made, especially given the fact it has an inbuilt power attenuator so cuts power to 7.5w. My Strat and Dusenberg sound fantastic through it, Gibson sounds OK but much better through a friends Marshall stack.

A good starting place is to look at the guitar/amp combos of your favourite bands. For example, Caleb Followill (KoL) used to play the Epiphone Sheraton II and is really quite a nice guitar to play, particularly for the price. If hollowbody is your thing then other worthy contenders would be the Epiphone Dot, Gretch and my favourite guitar I own, Duesenberg (CC). Solidbody guitars, well the world is your oyster but my tip would be just take a day off work and head down to a good guitar shop and try a bunch of combinations of guitars and amps. If you have some pedals then take them with you to see what sort of sounds you get.

Ray is quite right, ordering a guitar over the internet is a risk as you simply don’t know what you will end up with – I have done it 3 times and been fortunate but I know many others that haven’t.

Also, don't disregard second hand, in fact I don't personally plan on buying new again.
 
Boxman is quite right that an amp is important to the sound, in fact, one could argue the amp plays more part in creating the sound than the guitar. He is also right that some amps works with some guitar better than others. Also some amps are easier to dialled in than others, like a Les Paul into a Marshall normally gets you that classic rock sound without too much fiddling.

He is also right that a Les Paul is not the most comfortable guitar to play for long periods. A light one would be 8lbs, you can get them as heavy as 14lbs. Mine is 9lb, and that is weight relieved (there are 9 holes inside the body). My PRS Stripped 58 is 8.5lbs but that is solid all the way through. Where a tele can be 6lb, my Custom 24 is a hair over 7lb.

For £2k budget to get a guitar and amp…I'd be inclined to split it minimum 50/50 or may be even 60/40 in favour of amps, for the right amp/cab, so £800 guitar, £800 amp head and £400 for a cab.

Last month I saw a Tone King Falcon go for around £900, I've seen Bogner Shiva go for £1200. The Fretboard Forum currently someone is selling a Mesa 5:25 (not the plus) for just over £500. There are a few Badcat, a Tophat, a Two Rock, a Lazy J, Suhr, Carr, Divided by 13…it's boutique wall to wall !

Used gear market is very favourable for the buyer at the moment, you can get some real bargains for guitars and amps. Try not buy new if you can, I certainly wouldn't buy guitars or amps new anymore, unless they are selling at used prices, it happens. Or it is something you really want that hardly ever come up for sale.

For me though, the best bargain on the used market right now has to a PRS USA core model. Just pick one, they are plenty of them used and can get them 40-50% off the original price. They are all made to perfection, and their owners normally take care of them really really well. PRS are also easier to play, they have better lower fret access, more comfortable, contour to the body, stays in tune better, better figured maple, comes with a nice case, the tremolo is rock solid. I picked up a Custom 22 Special for £1,075 last September private. I manage to get £1500 trade in value for it against that Les Paul. I've seen a McCarty for sale used for £1200, I've seen a new DGT for £1250, a new 408 for £1150, I picked up my new Custom 24 for £1250, my used 305 for £990. I've seen as low as £600 for a CE24.

Whatever you do, don't walk into a store and buy a new PRS, you will lose £1k the minute you walk out the door.
 
Dimple said:
@ Raymond

Have you got any tunes for download because I'd love to hear you playing?
Click to expand...

I am going to apply the same rule as I do with photos, only show good ones.

So since i am not even 1/10th as you....never ? :p

Nitefly said:
When am I coming over to play your guitars again?
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I'll message you :)

radderfire said:
For guitar advice, try Rob Chapman's YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCOIcdii1bQmfSPHeNNw4Qw

Rgds
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I like the guy but he also owns his own line of guitars...so bias towards them. Plus his playing is just gain, gain and more gain. I don't mind Anderton's videos but it's not the last word on guitar advice. There is an agenda behind all his videos, it's to sell them. You should see the Mesa Cab clone video, it is cringe worthy...
 
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I'd echo what others have said about trying guitars, you should always play the guitar you buy, but go in with an open mind and you never know what you might come out with.

I've mostly bought second hand and your budget would be able to get you a good setup. Plus someone else has took the depreciation hit and probably dinged it a bit too, nothing worse then pristine guitars in my book! (play em don't polish em).

Regarding amps, you haven't said if you just intent to play at home, or live, recording etc but i'll say don't overlook small tube amps, or even some of the newer digital amps. Probably some of the best sounds i've had at home were from a 15 watt Gibson Goldtone or a 4 watt Vox AC4 amp, both with a few home made pedals.

The vox was £120 second hand and sounded great. At home i'm using a Blackstar ID60 which is all digital. Heresy some might say but it's really good, sounded nice live too, very flexible.

If you do end up with a Les Paul though, good on you. I used to gig years ago with a battered black Les paul studio and a Marshall stack, it sounded great.
 
I'll come in from another angle.
I've been playing live in bands since 1970 and I still play now in two rock bands so I've had quite a bit of experience.
I've obviously gone through most permutations of guitars/amps over the years and owned virtually all the famous guitars plus quite a few famous amps.
Around 2011 I started to want more from my setup because I needed different sounds during the gig and I also had a problem with going deaf.
To cut a long story short I've ended up selling all my major guitars (inc a Gibson Les Paul Standard) and I ended up buying two James Tyler JTV-59 guitars which are the most amazing guitars I've ever played in my 45 years of gigging.
They suit my hands and my body perfectly and sound like a Les Paul through their normal pickups but turn on the electronics and I have 37 famous guitars at my fingertips + all different tunings.
For example I can be playing Kashmir with a Danelectro in DADGAD tuning, the next song I'll be on a Les Paul in normal tuning for Black Dog and then perhaps on an overdriven SG in drop D tuning for Pantera's Walk.
I then got fed up of my Marshall TSL120 because I couldn't hear it so bought a Blackstar ID30 which faces up at me like a monitor and I can honestly say this is the best amp I've had in 45 years and it sounds awesome through my 3000 watt PA system.

I understand that my setup is not for 99.9999% of guitarists but it suits my needs down to the ground because I've gone past the 'Names' stage in my life and I know I can get all those famous sounds from the guitars and amp I now have.
I can't believe those James Tyler guitars are now around £700 when I paid £1100 each for them but worth every penny.
 
I know about your story Dimple, and you are right that you can get a lot of sounds from your JT but I guess it is the same argument having a valve or modelling amp.

Do I get a Bogner Ecstasy or do I get a Axe FX II?

Also, as the audience, I think all guitar sounds kind of the same, especially in a band situation. With a loud drummer, it's just background noise a lot of the times. At home though, you can get a bit more nerdy about gear and appreciate the small differences more.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I know about your story Dimple, and you are right that you can get a lot of sounds from your JT but I guess it is the same argument having a valve or modelling amp.

Do I get a Bogner Ecstasy or do I get a Axe FX II?

Also, as the audience, I think all guitar sounds kind of the same, especially in a band situation. With a loud drummer, it's just background noise a lot of the times. At home though, you can get a bit more nerdy about gear and appreciate the small differences more.
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A mate uses the Axe FX II on live gigs with the big pedal, oh my word. I think it cost £3,500.
His main sound comes through a full frequency PA so you can hear the difference when he dials different amp models eg Boston, Journey, Foreigner and so on.
You are quite right though, when the main guitar sound is just coming from the back of the stage then they can all sound similar.
My lead guitarist has got a phenomenal guitar sound through a TSL102 but when it's gone wrong he seems to be able to plug his guitar into anything and he still gets the same sound, it's all in the fingers.

Another mate of mine has spent tens of thousands on top gear and when he plugs in, his guitar goes 'Eek' but when other people play on his gear it sounds awesome.
One night he got on my lead guitarists gear and that went 'Eek'. It must be his fingers.
 
Dimple said:
A mate uses the Axe FX II on live gigs with the big pedal, oh my word. I think it cost £3,500.
His main sound comes through a full frequency PA so you can hear the difference when he dials different amp models eg Boston, Journey, Foreigner and so on.
You are quite right though, when the main guitar sound is just coming from the back of the stage then they can all sound similar.
My lead guitarist has got a phenomenal guitar sound through a TSL102 but when it's gone wrong he seems to be able to plug his guitar into anything and he still gets the same sound, it's all in the fingers.

Another mate of mine has spent tens of thousands on top gear and when he plugs in, his guitar goes 'Eek' but when other people play on his gear it sounds awesome.
One night he got on my lead guitarists gear and that went 'Eek'. It must be his fingers.
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It is all in the fingers, like photography, give a camera to any good photographer and his photos will have his style imprinted on it no matter what he is using. It's very much the same with music.

That's to say, it's fun to play with nice cameras and lenses and it's nice to play with nice guitars, amps and pedals.
 
Guitars and Music in general are all subjective..

I've probably had more kit through my hands than most people, Solid State amps, valve amps, boutique amps ,Axe FX (I've had 4 of them), modern and vintage amps. Also had LOTS of guitars, Gibsons, Fenders, PRS, Variax, I've had them all.

One thing I've learn after spending 10s of thousands of pounds is that you'll never fully settle on a guitar and rig, GAS is a terrible mistress :)

My advice would be to get a decent Amp, but not spend a fortune on it, it's a law of diminishing returns. £300-400 will get you a really good amp and get you 90% of the sound in your head, the other 10% will cost you another £1500 :o as others have said, you really need to know 2 things, what you want to sound like, and where you are going to play. It's pointless getting a 100W marshall valve head to play in your bedroom, equally getting a 5w Solid State amp is worthless if you want to play with others, especially with a real drummer.

Guitar wise, ALWAYS buy in person (doesn't matter if it's new or used) guitars are organic things, wood is different from 1 tree to the next, and even different within the same tree. Get something you feel comfortable with, and that sounds good to YOUR ears. Personally I always buy used, I've only ever bought 2 new guitars and lost money on both when selling. £1100-1500 will get you a really nice Les Paul if that's what you're after.

Don't get hung up about Gibson's being weight relieved or chambered, EVERY Gibson after 1982 has weight relief (apart from the Custom Shop Historic series).

For the record I'm a Les Paul player, my number 1 is a '99 Les Paul Custom in black with ebony fingerboard. It's a rock M O N S T E R.

16434442316_15159d2d0a_c.jpg


(It's not that clean anymore :))
 
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