GPU panic selling?

[Jimmy Weirdarms]

That could also be assuming people only mine direct to cash.. as long as its profitable (which it still is) all you have to do is cover the electric and wait for a sell opportunity later down the line.

I mean I could mine 0.1 ETH in a few weeks but why sell for yesterdays price of £1470, when I can set a sell limit on it for £1800? This way if it triggers (this is just an example btw) my order I have actually sold my ETH for £180 as opposed to selling it on the day for £147. When you observe it in this context, all a miner has to do is mine it till the sell time equates to the same daily profit as a few weeks ago!

If mining isn't profitable though, you're better off buying at today's price than mining.

i.e. you could mine that 0.1 ETH for £160, and like you say you have faith in the market, and sell at £180, for a £20 profit. Or you could just buy at £147 and using the same sell order you'll make £33.

It never makes sense to mine at a higher cost than the production cost.

 

[gpuerrilla]

If mining isn't profitable though, you're better off buying at today's price than mining.

I only replied in that context as it clearly would be when a person already owns the cards, we all know in a status quo its best to buy crypto direct in a fallen market? What if the market picks up again before the years out and new ATH's are reached? I think scrambling to get hardware in this scenario would be unpredictable but Im taking it you are discussing short term virgin miners that only got involved in 2020/21 and dumping all the equipment would be a select proportion of the base out there.

Also, you should never buy blind and not check out your basics like ROI, expenses etc. If you are only referring to 'fresh' people looking to buy hardware to get into mining then its a bad time/decision right now.

I tend to see when the observing narrative is with hindsight in mind, your taking it everyone is into trading and want crypto to invest/gamble. Although it is lucrative at times, there are often people that get burned when trading, moving the tokens about, market dumps. I appreciate the exchanges and apps are far easier to use these days but there is still a chunky proportion of people that are not very savvy using these tools.

Mining is usually an introduction into crypto and we have seen it in the nicehash threads where people step into the space. Its easy to point out 'well just buy the tokens' - it was only a few weeks away cards like a 3080 were making £9 a day.

 

[Haggisman]

i.e. you could mine that 0.1 ETH for £160, and like you say you have faith in the market, and sell at £180, for a £20 profit. Or you could just buy at £147 and using the same sell order you'll make £33.

If you already have the hardware then mining 0.1 eth doesn't cost anywhere near £160, more like ~£30 of electric. Buying £30 of eth today would get you ~0.019 eth. That same sell order would then get you a huge ~£4 of profit.

Obviously you could sell the cards and buy the ~£1.4k* eth instead, giving you ~0.875 eth, or £1,575 @ £1,800 (£175 profit).

This of course assumes you don't need the card anymore. For a lot of "bedroom miners" (e.g. people like me), they're only running a single card which is used for a lot more than mining. There would have to be considerable (e.g. a couple of £k) profit in it before I would consider getting rid of my card!

There's definitely a lot of calculations and "what ifs" to be taken into account before thinking about "panic selling"

* based on the fact my 6800 mines ~0.05eth/month and could sell for ~£700

 

[Jimmy Weirdarms]

Its easy to point out 'well just buy the tokens' - it was only a few weeks away cards like a 3080 were making £9 a day.

Sure, I was just pointing out that there's an absolute cutoff - when mining isn't profitable, but you still have faith in the market, you're better off buying the same quantity of cryptocurrency rather than mining it. You're paying for it either way, whether directly as cash or indirectly to your power company.

I know we aren't there right now.

If you already have the hardware then mining 0.1 eth doesn't cost anywhere near £160

Sure, that was just an example. Assuming you pay average UK domestic electricity prices, mining 0.1 eth will currently cost approximately £115 in electricity alone assuming you use RTX3090s to mine (source - whattomine.com) or £124 using 6800XTs, and net you around £158. So there's still a margin right now, but it's not quite as much as you think.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Sure, I was just pointing out that there's an absolute cutoff - when mining isn't profitable, but you still have faith in the market, you're better off buying the same quantity of cryptocurrency rather than mining it. You're paying for it either way, whether directly as cash or indirectly to your power company.

I know we aren't there right now.

Point is correct, just checking semantics on that point as if you are a worrier or want to capitalise on an overinflated GPU market, it would be sensible, however imo the time to have exited was a few weeks back in early May. That being said if your talking about someone holding multiple GPUs that invested in them, they are likely a committed miner and should be in for the longer haul. Equally as single card user, as @Haggisman pointed out you wouldn't sell the card which is why I eluded to your statement as being a bit captain obvious hindsight-esque. i.e.

It never makes sense to mine at a higher cost than the production cost.

For reference a 3080 on NH right now is making £4.36 a day and after electric profit of £3.51 which is nowhere near inference.

 

[Benass]

Any one who thinks About switch to alternative coin, look at the market cap. It's not an option.

 

[Freddie1980]

Any one who thinks About switch to alternative coin, look at the market cap. It's not an option.

I can't help but think a lot if not most of these alt coins have been setup as part of a 'pump & dump' scheme for dodgy 'gurus' to shill and market

 

[Haggisman]

Sure, that was just an example. Assuming you pay average UK domestic electricity prices, mining 0.1 eth will currently cost approximately £115 in electricity alone assuming you use RTX3090s to mine (source - whattomine.com) or £124 using 6800XTs, and net you around £158. So there's still a margin right now, but it's not quite as much as you think.

Based on actual real world experience I can tell you your figures are way out.

My PC with a single 6800 draws ~180w when mining. That's ~4.3kwh in 24hrs.

I pay an average of 12.6p/kwh, so cost of 54p/day or ~£16.80/month

I get 0.05eth/month, so double those figures to get 0.1 and you're looking at ~£34. About 1/4 of your figures!

Even at 15p/kwh, to be hitting £115/month your PC(s) would need to be using ~1kw.

It is still definitely profitable to mine eth if you already have the card.

Now, is it is more or less profitable than simply selling the card? That's something only a crystal ball can tell you unfortunately. Ultimately it comes down to whether you think the crypto market is going to go up or down, which is why I don't think we're going to see any panic selling any time soon.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Its one of the reasons why in strawman arguments or those that don't mine themselves, get strong opinions based on poor facts.

To support the post by @Haggisman , my figures for my 3090 are:

16p kwh ~96p a day. This is £29 a month. It would yield way more in value with the ETH it would mine in a month (0.11 /month) which at current prices is £178. 178 - 29 = £149.

-Ed corrected my ETH hash as it included my old GPU in my server contributing.

 

[Jimmy Weirdarms]

I pay an average of 12.6p/kwh ... Based on actual real world experience I can tell you your figures are way out.
I get 0.05eth/month, so double those figures to get 0.1 and you're looking at ~£34. About 1/4 of your figures!

Its one of the reasons why in strawman arguments or those that don't mine themselves, get strong opinions based on poor facts.
16p kwh ~96p a day. This is £29 a month. It would yield way more in value with the ETH it would mine in a month (0.11 /month) which at current prices is £178. 178 - 29 = £149.

Mea culpa, I'll admit when I'm clearly wrong, I was reading the calculator output the wrong way round, I did indeed have the profits and costs the wrong way around! On that basis it looks like mining is going to be profitable for some time yet.

That said, you're clearly both on the ball with uswitch ... the average UK electricity price is 17.2p!

 

[gpuerrilla]

I was reading the calculator output the wrong way round, I did indeed have the profits and costs the wrong way around! On that basis it looks like mining is going to be profitable for some time yet.

No qualms Jimmy its good to see some rational discussion! I recently changed supplier and this was best price I could get. My last one I went economy 7 as it was only way to mine in the harsh pricing before the recent bull market came. For those seven hours it was under 8p!

Even though the crypto correction has been hard, I cant see any sane investors ditching a 30 series or 6000 card that was probably hard to obtain in the pandemic frenzy. The terms 'flood' and 'panic selling' I have yet to witness, I have still seen Ti cards selling on popular sites for way over MSRP, it may come yet but only a myth so far...

 

[Cadder]

@Besty how are the prices looking?

 

[Haggisman]

Mea culpa, I'll admit when I'm clearly wrong, I was reading the calculator output the wrong way round, I did indeed have the profits and costs the wrong way around! On that basis it looks like mining is going to be profitable for some time yet.

It happens - unless you've done the research then it can be a bit of a minefield (pun not intended)

That said, you're clearly both on the ball with uswitch ... the average UK electricity price is 17.2p!

I'm on an EV tariff which has extremely low rates for a few hours in the middle of the night (and also happens to have the best "normal" rates I could find!)... I haven't yet told my supplier that I got rid of the EV last year due to WFH (looking like permanently)

 

[gpuerrilla]

The supplier I left a few weeks back sent out a circular they were upping their prices again!! So what was 17p day rate has now gone up to with tax 19p a unit.

Normally mining in the UK is barely worth it due to high tariff prices. You do really need solar/wind to offset the costs, I will get one of these renewables someday - I cant understand why the gov. when under pressure to be carbon neutral and green cannot entice homeowners to install these with a good subsidy package instead of wasting time on insulation promoting. Having micro generation puts less burden on needing nuclear/coal power plants, boggles the mind..

 

[Grim5]

I can't help but think a lot if not most of these alt coins have been setup as part of a 'pump & dump' scheme for dodgy 'gurus' to shill and market

watch wolf of Wall Street - back in the day penny stocks were the pump and dump, you'd convince people to take their 401k pension funds and pump it into these penny small cap stocks then dump and run away laughing to the bank. These pop up new coins are the same.

you can mine coins all you want, but they ain't worth Jack squat without a stupid sucker who is willing to buy them from you and that's where the shilling and scamming comes in

 

[Grim5]

It happens - unless you've done the research then it can be a bit of a minefield (pun not intended)



I'm on an EV tariff which has extremely low rates for a few hours in the middle of the night (and also happens to have the best "normal" rates I could find!)... I haven't yet told my supplier that I got rid of the EV last year due to WFH (looking like permanently)

Surprised your EV tariff isn't seperate metered to the charger, seems rather pointless otherwise if your retailer is just giving you an "EV" rate on anything going through the circuit

 

[Grim5]

The supplier I left a few weeks back sent out a circular they were upping their prices again!! So what was 17p day rate has now gone up to with tax 19p a unit.

Normally mining in the UK is barely worth it due to high tariff prices. You do really need solar/wind to offset the costs, I will get one of these renewables someday - I cant understand why the gov. when under pressure to be carbon neutral and green cannot entice homeowners to install these with a good subsidy package instead of wasting time on insulation promoting. Having micro generation puts less burden on needing nuclear/coal power plants, boggles the mind..

Solar economics need to stack up by themselves and they should do anyway. You say you want a subsidy but why, you say you're paying so much for energy consumption so surely some panels and a battery will help to you dodge much of your consumption coming through the grid. If you're the home owner you can probably get some package deal over a long time period added to your mortgage

 

[Maccy]

Closing this as it's way off topic now and the recent posts should be in the crypto forum.