Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Jun 2004
- Posts
- 3,691
How do you know she wasn't?
grandmother, 94, beaten up in her bed as she slept
- Thread starter cm1179
- Start date
How do you know she wasn't?
The death penalty doesn't really impact it either. But lets not let evidence that a focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment is actually more effective get in the way of an emotive rant....
Associate
- Joined
- 6 Jun 2011
- Posts
- 2,159
- Location
- EU...
I see that the "lets torture him to death" crowd has decided to ignore my large posts on the previous page rather than respond to them. Figures.
Associate
- Joined
- 7 Sep 2007
- Posts
- 1,222
- Location
- UK
No modern culture can advocate torture as a legitimate punishment for a crime, as it is looking for revenge - not justice. Ignoring the fact that I doubt you did a nationwide survey on what the people of this country want, and I have a hard time believing most sane people would advocate torture - our justice system isn't decided by mob rule.
What was done to the lady was a horrific act of violence against a defenceless individual and the person that committed it needs to be caught and tried to the full extent of the law. I can't believe any sane person would commit such an act, and if they are seriously mentally ill would you still advocate torture/death as opposed to incarceration and treatment?
It's hard to remove the emotional aspect in a case like this but that's what our justice system tries to do to make sure that all sides of a case are considered and evaluated with professional integrity.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 1 Aug 2004
- Posts
- 12,681
- Location
- Tyneside
I'd be interested to hear from any HMP staff on here but while cat D may be cushy, your higher cat prisons aren't.
Revenge is justice though, not to your standards but why should your trump mine?
Yes that's why the government wont do a referendum on capital punishment because they know it will pass.
Oh but it is, this is what a democracy is, read it up sometime.
In short, you literally have no idea what you're talking about. To quote Rachel Dawes (and only because she's correct), justice is about harmony, revenge is about making yourself feel better.
How on earth do you know what the result of a referendum on capital punishment would be? Justice is not democratic, sorry. Ignoring the fact that the concept of 'punishment' is completely pointless, we can't hold referenda to decide whether or not someone is guilty. Democracy is giving people the power to decide who dominates them, yes. But the judiciary is not the legislature, and it is not the executive; it's a separate branch of government that is not accountable to the people for the above reason. It's not about deciding whether or not people want to put someone to death, it's about determining whether or not someone is guilty. That is a fact that is not up for a popular vote.
Last edited:
Indeed you dont, try typing without emotion and use some logic next time.
As we are part of the EU we couldn't introduce the death penalty anyway. Not to mention that it would cost a fortune and wouldn't really impact crime levels as its deterrence value is negligible.
Thankfully we don't live in a true democracy where mob rule is allowed unfettered power, instead we have some fundamental rights that cannot just be voted away. You may want to read up on how our democracy actually works sometime.
I know that it is all horribly liberal of me but the evidence really does suggest that a focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment is a much better way to run a justice system.
UK prisons are a walk in the park Compared to US state prisons.
How is it logical to move to a system of greater punishment rather than one of greater rehabilitation when evidence points to rehabilitation being more effective?
Not really sure the US system is one we want to emulate considering their crime rates.
Wow, you are the real deal.
Associate
- Joined
- 7 Sep 2007
- Posts
- 1,222
- Location
- UK
No, it really isn't - revenge is all about making you feel better, justice is about balance. Mine trumps yours as it is the accepted legal standard in this country, and thankfully you are not in a position of power to change that. If you want to live somewhere with a justice system more suited to your beliefs I recommend any countries which still implement stoning as a punishment.
They can't as we're a member of the EU, and capital punishment also has nothing to do with advocating torture as a punishment.
No it is not, our laws are not all decided by public vote regardless of what you may think. We can't vote to breach the bill of human rights.
Associate
- Joined
- 6 Jun 2011
- Posts
- 2,159
- Location
- EU...
1) you have no idea what the result of a referendum will be
2) there wont be one because there is no public or political pressure for one
3) revenge is not justice. You clearly don't own a dictionary. "Revenge" doesn't achieve anything except your own gratification. Justice attempts to arrive at the best outcome for everyone, including the criminal. If he can be rehabilitated and become a contributing member of society, what is so bad about that?
4) "why should your standards trump mine" goes both ways
5) democracy is not the same as mob rule. Democracy in the modern sense is where we choose between candidates and then they make the important decisions. We have no direct say in policy (which at times is bad, but with people like you around I feel more thankful)
Well, now any doubt over whether you are trolling or not has been dispelled. Either that or you are reaaaaaaaaaaally beyond stupid. If you applied even a shred of objective reasoning you would realise that you are the one being emotional (anger/spite).
@bhavv. I seem to remember from previous threads that you are a pretty devout christian (even a creationist). With that in mind, how does torturing a man to death fit in with God's commandment to forgive? Not that I buy into any of that ****, but IIRC you do, or at least you claim to.
Last edited:
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
The new rules mean I cant bash religion anymore.
Well I have no idea, but in my bible it tells me that rebellious children should be stoned to death.
Last edited:
Oh actually, I agree that a strong welfare system pushes people away from crime ... but in the UK arent we now doing the opposite and denying benefits for people that need them / complaining and whining about all the people on benefits, and saying things like 'send them back!!!!1111' 'Make amputees work in an office, make cancer patients answer emails and phonecalls' etc etc etc.
Plenty of people who are on / were on / should be on benefits for legitimate reasons are generally looked down on and hated by everyone else, and a lot of them are getting their welfare taken away by the current government even if they genuinely are unfit to work, and medical experts say that they are unfit to work too.
Of course there are a lot of people cheating the system, but why are people with genuine medical claims being made to suffer because of the cheaters and significant problems within the application system?
Last edited:
Tyron.
Your argument is wrong. Because of one reason.
You make completely unbased, biased and quite frankly ridiculous sweeping generalisations.
Saying that everyone agrees with you is wrong. As I for one do not agree with you, as I find your view and proposed solution reprehensible and feral, harking back to primitive mindsets. And I'm not a liberal.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...
Your argument is wrong. Because of one reason.
You make completely unbased, biased and quite frankly ridiculous sweeping generalisations.
Saying that everyone agrees with you is wrong. As I for one do not agree with you, as I find your view and proposed solution reprehensible and feral, harking back to primitive mindsets. And I'm not a liberal.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...
Last edited: