Greenlizard0 PL & Championship Football Thread ** spoilers ** [2nd - 12th January 2023]

[Shamikebab]

Did so much time wasting in the game against us too, it is clearly a main strategy in big games this season and unfortunately our refs are too incompetent to do anything about it.

 

[ik9000]

Did so much time wasting in the game against us too, it is clearly a main strategy in big games this season and unfortunately our refs are too incompetent to do anything about it.

Fulham were time wasting at the end last night. Keeper got a yellow for it in added time but ref didn't adjust the added time to compensate so they get away with it over all. Perez missing from 3 yards doesn't help either tbf. Maybe the ref felt he could give them another 30 mins and they still wouldn't score? who knows, but like diving, the only way to stop it is to penalise it sufficiently that it's not worth doing it anymore.

 

[bazzabear]

After the world cup, it's really a bit depressing going back to a system where you can have a game stopped for 5 minutes for an injury, amidst myriad time wasting, and know for a fact that the ref is just going to add 4 minutes at the end like he always does.

And then there will be 3 substitutions and a load more time wasting after the 90 minutes are up - and he'll react to that by ... whistling on 93:50.

I'm another one voting for taking the time keeping out of the refs hands. They're clearly not capable of it. 30 minute halves with no advancement of the clock when the ball is out of play.

 

[Shamikebab]

I just want so many changes to football rules, it's been stagnant for so long and it is so harmful. Make 0-0 draws zero points for both teams, suddenly no reason for teams parking the bus and games are more entertaining, every team has to try and score. 100% agree in shortening games but making added on time actually correct, we saw how much it cut down on cheating and time wasting in the world cup.

 

[Raymond Lin]

World Cup style time added on would be amazing, just implement it and watch the reaction seeing extra 35mins added on….or just stop the clock like in American football/basketball/Ice Hockey.

They would think twice before doing it again.

 

[fez]

I just want so many changes to football rules, it's been stagnant for so long and it is so harmful. Make 0-0 draws zero points for both teams, suddenly no reason for teams parking the bus and games are more entertaining, every team has to try and score. 100% agree in shortening games but making added on time actually correct, we saw how much it cut down on cheating and time wasting in the world cup.

Until they largely abandoned it after the group stages. They were adding on 8+ minutes near the start of the tournament and that dropped to the usual 3-4 for as it went on.

Its frankly ridiculous in some games. The United game the other day had 1 minute stoppage after at least 6+ minutes purely on injuries in the first half.

If referees are incapable of tracking time then give them a stop clock. Take it out of their hands for the most part. They get a signal at the end of each half saying how much time has been lost to injuries and general stoppages and there should be a timer on throw-ins, goal kicks and corners that either players have to adhere to in the moment or any extra time taken is simply added on. Want to take 30s for a goalkick? Go for it. You will get 20s added to the extra time though.

 

[robfosters]

I just want so many changes to football rules, it's been stagnant for so long and it is so harmful. Make 0-0 draws zero points for both teams, suddenly no reason for teams parking the bus and games are more entertaining, every team has to try and score. 100% agree in shortening games but making added on time actually correct, we saw how much it cut down on cheating and time wasting in the world cup.

No points for 0-0 is a silly idea.

usually, like last night, one side parks the bus all night while the other attacks. Why should the team who is actively going out to score and win all 3 points, be punished because their opponents timewaste and stick 11 men behind the ball?

You won’t always get teams attack in the event of no points. Depending on league positions it might suit a team to get a zero points all round result rather than attack and risk the opponents getting all 3.

 

[Vandle]

Zero points for 0-0. This place sometimes
I do think the gamesmanship would stop mind if we went down the route of the WC group stage. Great point for Newcastle and a reasonably fair result. There was a distinct lack of clear cut chances for both sides. Thought the pull by Burn should have been a pen, also the pull on him in the first half should have been one too. Deans new VAR guidelines just as baffling as the old.

 

[Shamikebab]

No points for 0-0 is a silly idea.

usually, like last night, one side parks the bus all night while the other attacks. Why should the team who is actively going out to score and win all 3 points, be punished because their opponents timewaste and stick 11 men behind the ball?

You won’t always get teams attack in the event of no points. Depending on league positions it might suit a team to get a zero points all round result rather than attack and risk the opponents getting all 3.

Why is it a silly idea? Football is a spectator sport, what is more exciting seeing two teams try and win a game or see one side camped in front of their own goal playing for 0-0? Relegation teams are not going to care of City etc get 3pts, it doesn't affect them at all. But them getting 0pts for going out with no intention to try and score? That they will care about.

 

[Bigpig]

Zero points for 0-0. This place sometimes
I do think the gamesmanship would stop mind if we went down the route of the WC group stage. Great point for Newcastle and a reasonably fair result. There was a distinct lack of clear cut chances for both sides. Thought the pull by Burn should have been a pen, also the pull on him in the first half should have been one too. Deans new VAR guidelines just as baffling as the old.

How far does Var go back?

Dan Burn pull was a penalty.

However the free kick it came from wasn't a foul.

J7 won the ball before the contact.

 

[robfosters]

Why is it a silly idea? Football is a spectator sport, what is more exciting seeing two teams try and win a game or see one side camped in front of their own goal playing for 0-0? Relegation teams are not going to care of City etc get 3pts, it doesn't affect them at all. But them getting 0pts for going out with no intention to try and score? That they will care about.

You have totally ignored my point of some teams actually being satisfied if both teams get 0 points.

 

[Shamikebab]

You have totally ignored my point of some teams actually being satisfied if both teams get 0 points.

What scenario would that happen where they wouldn't currently be happy with both teams getting 1pt?

 

[robfosters]

What scenario would that happen where they wouldn't currently be happy with both teams getting 1pt?

ok, but when a relegation team plays a top 4 side in a match where it’s highly likely they will get beat if they play openly and attack, isn’t it fair that they be rewarded with a point for keeping a top team out for 90 minutes?

Theres nothing wrong with the current points system and parking the bus is an acceptable tactic in football.

The biggest issue is time wasting. Sort that out and the whole game will improve.

 

[Shamikebab]

ok, but when a relegation team plays a top 4 side in a match where it’s highly likely they will get beat if they play openly and attack, isn’t it fair that they be rewarded with a point for keeping a top team out for 90 minutes?

Theres nothing wrong with the current points system and parking the bus is an acceptable tactic in football.

The biggest issue is time wasting. Sort that out and the whole game will improve.

It depends, is football for the teams or for the fans? If you're happy watching one team sat in front of the goal showing no intention to score then go you but for me football is far more exciting when both teams are trying to score. Your arguments are all over the place, do you see how these two statements contradict each other?

Why should the team who is actively going out to score and win all 3 points, be punished because their opponents timewaste and stick 11 men behind the ball?

ok, but when a relegation team plays a top 4 side in a match where it’s highly likely they will get beat if they play openly and attack, isn’t it fair that they be rewarded with a point for keeping a top team out for 90 minutes?

You don't want teams punished by getting the same number of points as a team that sits in front of their goal, but you do want teams rewarded for sitting in front of their goal...

 

[Vandle]

How far does Var go back?

Dan Burn pull was a penalty.

However the free kick it came from wasn't a foul.

J7 won the ball before the contact.

I don’t know how far it goes back. It still seems so inconsistent.
agree on the other points. Fair result overall after our biggest test of the season.

 

[BaZ87]

This idea of awarding 0 points for 0-0's is a bit extreme however it's along the same lines of the change from 2 to 3 points for a win. When there was only 1 point difference between drawing and winning it didn't encourage teams to play for wins however I think having 0 points for 0-0's is a bit ott.

How far does Var go back?

Dan Burn pull was a penalty.

However the free kick it came from wasn't a foul.

J7 won the ball before the contact.

Exactly how far they can go back depends on their interpretation of a phase of play however they cannot go back beyond any restart (corner, free-kick, throw-in etc) so whether it was a free-kick or not (I didn't see the game so don't know) would have had no impact on the VAR's decision to award a pen or not.

 

[manic111]

Why is it a silly idea? Football is a spectator sport, what is more exciting seeing two teams try and win a game or see one side camped in front of their own goal playing for 0-0? Relegation teams are not going to care of City etc get 3pts, it doesn't affect them at all. But them getting 0pts for going out with no intention to try and score? That they will care about.

It's a silly idea because football is the best sport in the world due to the huge variety of types of player and tactics that can succeed. If you dissuade teams from playing defensively, you are detracting from a huge part of that.

You say that fans don't want to see 0-0 draws, but:
- Newcastle fans seemed to be having a whale of a time last night
- I'm willing to bet that next time Southampton play City their fans would be over the moon with a 0-0

Football is primarily a competitive sport. That's its "purpose", and that's why it's so interesting to fans. If you detract from that competitiveness, you're making it far less interesting.

 

[Bigpig]

I don't think we intentionally set out for a 0-0 but we were more forced into it by the start of the Gunners made.

We just couldn't get a grip of the game and were wasteful when we won the ball.

I believe that was more down to how good Arsenal are.

Just Arsenal didn't have a plan B to break us down after forcing us back.

The XG difference wasn't massive.

 

[The_One]

I don't think we intentionally set out for a 0-0 but we were more forced into it by the start of the Gunners made.

We just couldn't get a grip of the game and were wasteful when we won the ball.

I believe that was more down to how good Arsenal are.

Just Arsenal didn't have a plan B to break us down after forcing us back.

The XG difference wasn't massive.

This is fair

When saka mullered dan burn down the right and cut into the area within a few mins you could see newcastle changed shape and from then on were 2 and 3 manning martinelli and saka. Newcastle will take points off the other top 4 rivals so not too worried about last nights draw.

 

[Shamikebab]

It's a silly idea because football is the best sport in the world due to the huge variety of types of player and tactics that can succeed. If you dissuade teams from playing defensively, you are detracting from a huge part of that.

You say that fans don't want to see 0-0 draws, but:
- Newcastle fans seemed to be having a whale of a time last night
- I'm willing to bet that next time Southampton play City their fans would be over the moon with a 0-0

Football is primarily a competitive sport. That's its "purpose", and that's why it's so interesting to fans. If you detract from that competitiveness, you're making it far less interesting.

I think there is a lot of confusion in this thread between playing low block and playing for 0-0. Newcastle had 8 shots last night, they clearly weren't parked in their half playing for 0-0. The goal is not to punish low block, it's a perfectly valid form of football.

It's also a naive statement to say that because it's popular it can't be improved on. That is the kind of attitude that has lead to diving, time wasting and other changes not being addressed at all.