Undoubtedly yes, Cleverly's role is that of the workhorse, he is just a cog in the machine whereas Wilshere is significantly more important in that Arsenal midfield, he makes them tick. Wilshere just makes me weak at the knees though. I do maybe love him too much.
Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [13 - 17th April 2013]
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Caporegime
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Cleverley gets forward loads and his role is definately more attacking than Carrick, so his role isn't workhorse, at all. Likewise Wilshire's first and only full season at Arsenal was in a defensive midfield role, where he rarely got forwards, even with Arteta more in that role now and Wilshire more offensive, he still makes loads of tackles and defends a hell of a lot, and effectively. He's every bit the "work horse", yet still shows that extra ability.
So I don't think their respective roles mean anything at all, you can be a defensive midfielder like MAkelele, and never try anything interesting ever, or you can be Gilberto and bag 12 league goals in a season. Its not about what role you play, its about what you do and the decisions you make when you do get the ball. Wilshire can go, win the ball back and turn and make a killer pass or burst past 3 people to start a counter attack, or hold the ball up using physical strength or just turning away from danger and moving into space.
Funny, just realised that with Arsenal currently sitting on 60 points, 3 wins and a draw from the next 5 games (Fulham, Utd, QPR, Wigan, Newcastle) and Arsenal will have matched their 2011/12 points total (70), which exceeded their 2010/11 points total (68). Given they sold their stand-out best player (in both seasons tbf) can it still be called a poor season?
I would probably go with underachieving in the cups (as usual) but about expected if not slightly better in the league what with RVP being sold etc.
Running through the BBC prediction machine to the end of the season I get:
1 - Man Utd - 96pts
2 - Man City - 84pts
3 - Chelsea - 75 pts
4 - Arsenal - 70 pts
With Wigan, QPR and Reading to go down, Wigan unlucky finally to go down on GD vs Sunderland. Spurs to lose out again on CL by 1 point (69 pts) and Everton to win the Scouse Cup by 3 points in 6th (65 vs 62).
Sorry bit OT there, is there a PL end of season prediction thread?
I would probably go with underachieving in the cups (as usual) but about expected if not slightly better in the league what with RVP being sold etc.
Running through the BBC prediction machine to the end of the season I get:
1 - Man Utd - 96pts
2 - Man City - 84pts
3 - Chelsea - 75 pts
4 - Arsenal - 70 pts
With Wigan, QPR and Reading to go down, Wigan unlucky finally to go down on GD vs Sunderland. Spurs to lose out again on CL by 1 point (69 pts) and Everton to win the Scouse Cup by 3 points in 6th (65 vs 62).
Sorry bit OT there, is there a PL end of season prediction thread?
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Wilshere is a much much better player than Cleverly at the moment. Whenever Wilshere is in the mood and fit he is an awesome little player. If he can get over his injury issues he will be the heart of the England team for years to come.
Hopefully United will sign him in the next 2-3 years.
Hopefully United will sign him in the next 2-3 years.
5* star post...would read again.
I watched the first half and thought we looked pretty cack going forward...as usual Giroud misses a great opportunity to give us the lead :/. Wilshere looked poor yet again and going forward, we didnt look like we were going to score. Like i said i only watched the first half so dont know how the second half went. Anyhow i said before the game to a few friends that we werent going to win as Everton arent a side to be taken lightly...they looked far more dangerous going forward than we did from what i saw in the first half.
Anyhow dropping points at this stage isnt going to help us in our chase for the top 4 but im hoping both Spurs and Chelsea come a cropper in their next games. Especially Spurs as they do their yearly implosion at around this time of the season
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I'd rather have Wilshere than Cleverley at United, even with his fitness problems. Wilshere is the kind of midfielder I'm hoping England can produce more of in the future (minus the injury problems), he reminds me a lot of the class Spanish midfielders like Mata.
Regarding last night's game, it wasn't the worst result for Arsenal. Realistically, Chelsea are going to get third spot, so it's between Spurs, Arsenal and Everton for fourth spot. I still think Arsenal will nab it because barring playing United they probably have the easiest run-in of the three teams. Spurs still have to play Chelsea and City, and Everton have the merseyside derby and Chelsea at the bridge.
Regarding last night's game, it wasn't the worst result for Arsenal. Realistically, Chelsea are going to get third spot, so it's between Spurs, Arsenal and Everton for fourth spot. I still think Arsenal will nab it because barring playing United they probably have the easiest run-in of the three teams. Spurs still have to play Chelsea and City, and Everton have the merseyside derby and Chelsea at the bridge.
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Well there was enough incident in that game for 10 games, and I doubt I'll ever see another like it ever again. Keith Stroud is just a complete tool, ruined it for both clubs. He booked our keeper for time wasting after 10 minutes, despite us being the team going for the win, for taking a goal kick from the other side of the six yard box. Then, inexplicably he'd booked their keeper within 30 seconds!
4 penalties, 2 missed, 3 red cards and an 89th minute equaliser. 4 points rescued in 4 days from losing positions. We're appealing the first red card, which cost as the game, as apparently there was nothing in it. Our second red was for two bookings - one for diving (clear penalty but Stroud didn't want to give us two penalties in 5 minutes) and the second yellow was similar to Alonso's (?) for Liverpool a few seasons ago whereby Donaldson lost his footing and slipped, but the ref booked him for a late tackle - these are the kind of decisions that good refs get correct and rubbish refs, like Stroud, mess up.
Long journey, left at 11.30am and got back in just before 3am. Constant skipped heartbeats as we went for it at the end despite being down to 9 men and having just missed a penalty. Also, conspiracy theories around last night - Stroud is from Bournemouth, and a draw last night was by far the best result for them...
We've now scored winning or equalising last minute goals this season against MK Dons, Walsall, Portsmouth, Sheff Utd, Colchester, Tranmere, Scunthorpe, Preston North End (twice) and Notts County! Dramatic to say the least!
Caporegime
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EXACTLY.
i expect both everton and spurs to drop points.
a draw against a good everton team is not to be embarrassed about. they did spank united earlier this season diddnt they? And i swear they also did not lose agains spurs either.
they are not a team you can walk over so expecting easy 3 points against them is wishful thinking.
any team in the EPL would struggle to beat everton.
I think this is the reality of playing Everton now. They are very hard to break down and always carry a goal threat. Earlier in the season against United, Fellaini was a monster. He holds the ball up so well and he has the best chest I have ever seen. No homo.
Like I said I agree Wilshere is the better player but a much much better player? No, that's taking it too far. Heres some dreaded stats (PL only);
Cleverley
20 Appearances
2 Goals
1 Assist
90.2% passing accuracy (from 993 attempted)
78.4 tackle success (from 37 attempted)
Wilshere
20 Appearances
0 Goals
3 Assists
86.3% passing accuracy (from 1142 attempted)
83.9% tackle success (from 31 attempted)
Now obviously stats don't tell everything and just because I know with this place I need to reiterate that I do agree Wilshere is the better player but there's not a chasm between the two like some seem to suggest
Caporegime
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Stats dont mean nout. Would you class Girud as a world class striker? he has 17 goals in his debut season already.
Man of Honour
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They beat Man Utd 1-0 at Goodison in their first game of the season and lost 0-2 at Old Trafford. Maybe spank is a bit of a strong word for a 1-0 win although from the match report they seem to have deserved the victory.
You're right about Tottenham in that they beat them 2-1 at Goodison and they've drawn 2-2 at White Hart Lane. Results.
No I don't class Giroud as world class, nor do I class 17 goals in all comps when I know for a fact some of those have come against lower league sides as a particularly amazing return but well done proving my point about people on this forum, it doesn't matter how many times you reiterate your underlining opinion people like yourself still pick at the parts you don't like
Caporegime
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Well it shows Everton are no push overs
But that is my point. That stats dont mean much so why do you post stats about wilshere and cleverley?No I don't class Giroud as world class, nor do I class 17 goals in all comps when I know for a fact some of those have come against lower league sides as a particularly amazing return but well done proving my point about people on this forum, it doesn't matter how many times you reiterate your underlining opinion people like yourself still pick at the parts you don't like
That is why i mention Girud as a perfect example to back my point how stats dont mean sweet FA
Your point about Giroud is irrelevant though, with Wilshere and Cleverley I compared passing accuracy, tackle completion, goals and assists all compiled over the course of a PL season; you on the other-hand post a goal return for a striker in all comps :/
What you'd be better off doing is spend the time and compare Giroud and his scoring stats to say RVP, who each player has scored against, the significance of the goals scored, how many assists each have, passing accuracy ect etc
What you'd be better off doing is spend the time and compare Giroud and his scoring stats to say RVP, who each player has scored against, the significance of the goals scored, how many assists each have, passing accuracy ect etc
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Caporegime
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Going by your logic, why dont you also post stats on which teams did wilshere/cleverley made those tackles, made x amount of passes, what goals and assists they made etc.
So again my point is relivent. you can go spouting stats to see of player x is better then player Y because it depends on a lot of things
Because doing that is insane
Quickly seeing who Giroud scored his 17 goals against (or his 11 league goals) on the other hand isn't.
If you can't fathom that then we're done here
Right enough of that here's the team for tonight
MUFC XI: De Gea, Rafael, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Valencia, Carrick, Jones, Kagawa, Rooney, van Persie
SUBS: Lindegaard, Evans, Cleverley, Nani, Giggs, Welbeck, Hernandez.
WHU XI: Jaaskelainen, Reid, Collins, Demel, O'Brien, Jarvis, Nolan, Diame, O'Neil, Vaz Te, Carroll
SUBS: Henderson, Pogatetz, Taylor, Collison, Noble, Maiga, Cole
MUFC XI: De Gea, Rafael, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Valencia, Carrick, Jones, Kagawa, Rooney, van Persie
SUBS: Lindegaard, Evans, Cleverley, Nani, Giggs, Welbeck, Hernandez.
WHU XI: Jaaskelainen, Reid, Collins, Demel, O'Brien, Jarvis, Nolan, Diame, O'Neil, Vaz Te, Carroll
SUBS: Henderson, Pogatetz, Taylor, Collison, Noble, Maiga, Cole
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