I don't know, on form he's one of the best. Unfortunately he has quite a few games like today where he doesn't do much.
Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [17th - 22nd August 2012]
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I don't know, on form he's one of the best. Unfortunately he has quite a few games like today where he doesn't do much.
Let the Arsenal fans vent their frustration, they'd be beyond foolish to start mocking RvP over one game. I'm sure most of them know that, only complete brainless fools like Piers Morgan don't.
Our only good attacker today was Kagawa, as you said, the rest were rubbish.
I'm not sure we should be starting Scholes in these tough away games either, he's a bit of a luxury player now unfortunately, he needs time on the ball to pull the strings. Everton won't give him that.
Apart from his tackling I don't think Scholes got caught on the ball tonight, only criticsm being he maybe played it a little too safe at times
Once again I don't think our injuries should be overlooked, no CB's meant our best midfielder in defence; that weakens both areas of the pitch, no Jones or Smalling also meant playing Valencia at RB meaning limited oppertunities to get him forward early enough if moves, it's obviously somewhat clutching at straws but still
I know Scholes creates time on the ball and is exceptionally good at it, but surely he would have been tired after a while. Someone there who could have challenged for the ball (a ball winner) would have been better. We need a player like that alongside Carrick or Scholes I think. We don't have one.
The other issue is that we had two central midfielders, one is Scholes and the other is Cleverley, what exactly is Cleverley's role? He seems to be doing a bit of everything.
Precisely, that's what I'm getting at. Scholes is fantastic but we need someone alongside him who has bags of energy and can read the game very well. Carrick can do to some extent but he's not a tireless runner.
I thought Cleverley was a more creative midfielder and he seems to be a bit of a mixture...
It was nice to see that, as soon as van Persie came on, he went right up front and was looking to run off the shoulder of the last defender instead of the usual Rooney stuff where he can't be bothered doing that and starts playing in midfield.
With Kagawa we have a player who can supply him with quality through balls, unfortunately we have the ball out wide most of the time so responsible defending kills our attack.
We need to start playing it through the middle with a bit more purpose instead of just having the ball on the wings where we don't pose much of a threat.
With Kagawa we have a player who can supply him with quality through balls, unfortunately we have the ball out wide most of the time so responsible defending kills our attack.
We need to start playing it through the middle with a bit more purpose instead of just having the ball on the wings where we don't pose much of a threat.
Sir Alex Ferguson said:
I have to agree that this is a bit disrespectful. Everton did use him as a ridiculously effective target man, but they played very well as a unit and were obviously going to score. They were also sensible to defend, as we had a hard enough time trying to break them down before they all started defending, so once they parked the bus, it looked very unlikely that we were going to score. Chelsea aren't comparable, they played 100% on the counter and parked the bus from the off in the Champion's League - Everton didn't do that.
We didn't change anything in order to try and stop Fellaini, and he can be stopped, of course he can. Or at least contained to a greater extent than he was. This was rather stupid.
Sir Alex doesn't seem to be concerned about our attacking tactics. Time and time again last season we needed to score and were just sat with the ball in wide areas. Teams should be happy for us to have it there as we pose no threat from headers really; in the unlikely event that our crosses get past the first man.
We're also beyond woeful from set pieces, we very rarely score from corners... so stop crossing it perhaps, especially when we only have one good header of the ball on the pitch. Take a short corner, set up someone for a long shot, etc.
Nani and Young both cut inside (though weren't effective last night), but Valencia doesn't. Putting Welbeck on the wing for the sake of it seemed bizarre when we have Young, a player who can be handy in those situations.
No doubt we'll beat Fulham next week and this will all be forgotten about, until it happens again. Our problems don't seem to have been addressed. Thankfully we've got this promising new left back (who can play right back too) in, and we're able to mix up our attack quite a lot - which is nice. I'd like to see a different approach. We played a 4-2-3-1 last night, yet mentally the players were playing in a 4-4-2; this doesn't work.
It's a bit stupid of him to say that though, having done absolutely nothing in the game to address it.
It was clear as day that Fellaini was ripping us apart, Cleverley and Scholes were never going to be able to stop him and he should have been a Vidic priority at corners.
Fellaini was excellent, but he's not Messi or Ronaldo, and even they can be contained.
We essentially had 3 advanced attacking players on the pitch and we were under siege for most of the game until they scored. Why not stick on Anderson as someone to try and press him, force him to make mistakes. He will make mistakes.
We made no effort to stop him really, and as difficult as that would have been, we should have tried.
RvP played in Kagawa at the end too.
We really need to shift the attacking focus to RvP and Kagawa, they will carve open defences and score goals. I'm not sure what's wrong with Rooney but he looks very much off the pace.
I know it's not the same thing, that was just an example. Fellaini is not unplayable, we just didn't play well enough to stop him, we didn't try to stop him really.
He was tearing us a new one between defence and midfield and we basically just had Cleverley running after him. Take off Scholes and have Anderson closing him down as well, do... something.
You can't tell me we should just expect to lose to Everton if Fellaini is playing well!
I'm sure we would have fared better if we had the likes of Jones and Ferdinand on, unquestionably, but they weren't available and the next best option wasn't just to ignore Fellaini and let him play how he wanted. Okay, he's going to win the aerial battle, so when he does we need two quick midfielders who can press him and close him down so he can't do anything extra.
Obviously this wouldn't have stopped the goal, that was down to the simply outrageous tactic of Carrick marking him at corners and not Vidic.
A diamond? Possible, I suppose.
Or perhaps, something like this:
---------- RvP -- Rooney --------
------------ Kagawa --------------
--Cleverley - Carrick - Anderson--
-------------Back four------------
-----------------GK----------------
That essentially removes our width, but evidenced by our wingers lack of ability to get the ball into the box, and complete inability to cross, I think it may work.
I don't know about that really, it's a fitness issue at the moment. They both offer something different.
Well, City set up slightly differently to that I think, what I suggested there is pretty much a 4-3-1-2 with 3 central midfielders (who contribute both defensively and offensively), the full backs would have to provide width but I don't think they'd have to effectively be wing backs in order to do so.
As you say though, our central midfield options are still a bit dodgy so maybe that wouldn't work too well. I'm getting sick to death of seeing the ball out wide though and then nothing coming of it.
Hard to say really, I think he can play at any pace, it just depends on the situation. I thought he looked excellent though.
Yeah, the whole back four were very good for them.
Yeah. Last night we started like this:
------------ Rooney --------
- Welbeck - Kagawa - Nani -
------ Scholes - Cleverley -----
I'd prefer:
------------- RvP ------------
- Kagawa - Rooney - Nani -
---- Anderson - Cleverley ----
That's with Rooney as more of a withdrawn striker more than an attacking midfielder, which is more or less what he does anyway. Kagawa isn't really on the wing there, he'd play a bit more inside like David Silva does for City. Anderson and Cleverley both have loads of energy and the 4 forward players should be able to create chances themselves, so we don't need Scholes pulling the strings in that particular sort of game.
I'm sure he will, he just chose not to start RvP last night (for the reasons previously stated). Even though RvP looked pretty fit, more so than Rooney. :/
That's if M'Vila is as good as people say he is.
I said 'that would do', not that the midfield is all of a sudden amazing. Look at the defence and attack for starters.
Carrick reads the game well and does a reasonably good job defensively, and he has a fairly good range of passing too. Ideally we'd want Carrick in that role with a ball winner next to him, like M'Vila or Javi Martinez (hypothetically, of course).
Real Madrid have Khedira there, for example, their formation is similar to that.
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