Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [21st - 24th Jan 2012]

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Whilst I agree with Kenny he could at least some of the blame himself, granted he always credits the players with the win compared to Hodgson who would claim it was himself but his choice to play that midfield was retarded.

If you buy a dog and dont toilet train it who takes the blame when it craps in your living room?

Kenny can blame as many players as he wants but he sees them in training, he picks the team, he selects the tactics, he spent the huge amount of money in the last year. Anyone who has a name other than "Kenny Dalglish" would have caused a riot with results like todays.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

Adams

I can accept that the position he's being asked to play has negated the attacking side of his game but I can't accept that it's the reason why his control, passing and general positioning has been so poor. He's being asked to play a part in the team while Lucas is injured and he's failing at that task. Spearing looks like he doesn't know his left from his right yet understands that the role of a DM is to sit in front of the defence and protect them, why can't Adams?

Carroll

We're a pass and move team so unless we drastically change the way we play I can't ever seeing him being anything other than an impact sub. It's all or nothing as far as I'm concerned with Carroll. Completely change the team so he can become a productive first team member or cut our loses.

Downing

He has every attribute needed to become a world class winger yet never uses them. He should be able to skin most defenders with his pace and get the ball in the box yet rarely does. To have played 21 games and not created or scored a single goal is beyond useless and points to far more than an issue with confidence.

 

[BaZ87]

i feel a lot of liverpool supporters would feel better if he went at a cut price or was even loaned out for the rest of the season, get his confidence back and have another bash. imagine what someone like o'neill could do with carroll for the rest of the season at sunderland? would be great for both clubs.

Great thinking. We're already short up front, the anwer is to get shot of another forward.

You don't loan out a player that's cost you that much and given the way he's career has started with us, we wouldn't get a big enough offer to make it worth selling him now (even if you wanted to sell him). A lot of the people that are calling him to go at all costs were saying the same about Lucas a few seasons back and now those same people are bemoaning the fact he's injured. It's clear that Carroll's not playing anywhere near enough but there are some mitigating factors (not excuses) and we've seen he's got the potential to become a decent player.

We need to bring in another forward to take the burden off of him, we need to start playing better in the final third to help him but he needs to start showing more too.

 

[BaZ87]

I can accept that the position he's being asked to play has negated the attacking side of his game but I can't accept that it's the reason why his control, passing and general positioning has been so poor. He's being asked to play a part in the team while Lucas is injured and he's failing at that task.

His control and passing hasn't been anywhere near as bad as you're suggesting. Positionally he's got a lot to learn though, especially when Lucas isn't around but that could be said about Gerrard too. Look at the first 2 goals today, Bolton's midfield just ran off the back of Gerrard and Adam, completely untracked. Adam's not a defensive midfielder, of course he's going to struggle if he's asked to play there or play without a defensively minded player alongside him. The fact that he's having to play there isn't his failing.

We're a pass and move team so unless we drastically change the way we play I can't ever seeing him being anything other than an impact sub. It's all or nothing as far as I'm concerned with Carroll. Completely change the team so he can become a productive first team member or cut our loses.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. We've seen in glimpses that Carroll has played effectively without playing entirely to his strengths. Those glimpses have got to become the norm though.

I read a comment by somebody (can't recall who) about Carroll and he raised the question as to how many forwards of Carroll's type, don't come into their own until their mid to late 20's. Carroll's never going to score a goal out of nothing or get the ball and beat a man but he needs to learn to use his strengths more and improve areas he can work on, like his positional play.

He has every attribute needed to become a world class winger yet never uses them. He should be able to skin most defenders with his pace and get the ball in the box yet rarely does. To have played 21 games and not created or scored a single goal is beyond useless and points to far more than an issue with confidence.

As you say, he's got the attributes but he seems scared to try things. Away to City in the league was a prime example; he showed at Anfield that he had the beating of Richards yet everytime he isolated Richards at the Etihad stadium, he'd turn back and pass to Adam or Enrique. The only thing it can be is confidence but if he doesn't turn it around, he'll be off.

 

[Purdy]

If you buy a dog and dont toilet train it who takes the blame when it craps in your living room?

What a **** analogy.

Kenny takes massive blame, so do the players, what you are suggesting it is only Kenny.

And as I already said, yes if it was Hodgson the reaction would be crucifying his tactics, but that said, RAWK is and a lot of Liverpool fans in general I know are, he can make **** ups all managers do, doesn't mean he needs sacked. People thinking we won't criticise him due to being Kenny are pretty thick.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Credit where credit is due, Sunderland were tight at the back today.

Both goals were pure class, and we could not finish today despite having the majority of the possession.

I'm starting to worry about our away form, so we need to get back on track or we'll be joining Wigan in the Championship in 2013

 

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What a **** analogy.

Kenny takes massive blame, so do the players, what you are suggesting it is only Kenny.

"A **** analogy? That in itself is a good analogy of my analogy!

ahem.

The point is he can come out and have a go at the players but he puts the whole package together and people have been saying for a while that Liverpool are just not good enough in many ways.

The big fee signings are simply not good enough.

If Adam isnt good enough yet KD buys him, trains him and plays him yet he still simply isnt good enough is it really the fault of Adam or is it KDs fault for putting him in that situation? That was what i meant by the analogy.

 

[Purdy]

"A **** analogy? That in itself is a good analogy of my analogy!

ahem.

The point is he can come out and have a go at the players but he puts the whole package together and people have been saying for a while that Liverpool are just not good enough in many ways.

The big fee signings are simply not good enough.

If Adam isnt good enough yet KD buys him, trains him and plays him yet he still simply isnt good enough is it really the fault of Adam or is it KDs fault for putting him in that situation? That was what i meant by the analogy.

So you think it is all Kenny's fault?

 

[cm1179]

Great thinking. We're already short up front, the anwer is to get shot of another forward.

ok then. leave him on the bench for the best part of the game and allow his value and self belief to decrease whilst you start others ahead of him or start him and play your passing game that he cannot be a part of. win win eh?

 

[BaZ87]

ok then. leave him on the bench for the best part of the game and allow his value and self belief to decrease whilst you start others ahead of him or start him and play your passing game that he cannot be a part of. win win eh?

Or how about playing him because we need to play him as we have no strikers?

Unless we get a big offer (which we won't) then selling or loaning Carroll now is nothing short of stupidity.

As I said, we need to start playing better to help him and we need to take some of the burden off him. There's no sense in selling him now though.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

If Scotland can be sold on eBay so can Andy Carroll.

*Logs in to eBay*

 

[Tummy]

You'll have to pay people to take him.

 

[cm1179]

There's no sense in selling him now though.

give him another year then, yeah?

don't get me wrong, something may *click* and he starts scoring again but for large parts, he seems to be on a different page. what would you lose by loaning him out? certainly not goals!

 

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So you think it is all Kenny's fault?

Not at all but i think up to a point he carries the can. This ISNT a one off result, it is part of a portfolio of under-performing this season.

The players that have under-performed as much or more than others are guys he paid big money for so its not unreasonable to point the finger at the man who bought them in the first place?

Its easy to over-analyse signings but there are some things that stand out as being poor. They were all mentioned at the time and they are coming home to roost now.

 

[mmj_uk]

Suarez - Our most creative player on paper but often has to do everything by himself. With better players around him he would be getting goals and assists for us in most games but usually ends up running himself in to the ground. I'm sure his 8 game ban will do wonders for his fitness after not having a break for so long but I'm worried he could look to move away from England in the summer

I hope not, apart from his diving antics he's a great player to watch and like you say in a better team he'd really excel. If he does leave Liverpool I hope he goes to one of the Manchester teams or perhaps Arsenal/Chelsea/Spurs.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

don't get me wrong, something may *click* and he starts scoring again but for large parts, he seems to be on a different page.

It's baffling. He's slow but he's built like a brick **** house and is amazing in the air yet rarely plays in and around the box and falls over as soon as anyone breathes near him.

I hope not, apart from his diving antics he's a great player to watch and like you say in a better team he'd really excel. If he does leave Liverpool I hope he goes to one of the Manchester teams or perhaps Arsenal/Chelsea/Spurs.

If he does move it'll be to escape the media witch hunt against him so somewhere abroad.

 

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It's baffling. He's slow but he's built like a brick **** house and is amazing in the air yet rarely plays in and around the box and falls over as soon as anyone breathes near him.

I think its a confidence thing. At Newcastle he was commanding the penalty area and smashing defenders out of the way to win the ball. At Liverpool he just doesnt seem to have that same dynamic approach. Its almost as if he doesnt believe he is going to win the challenge before he makes it?

Having said that, everything at Newcastle was geared to getting Carroll to score and at Liverpool he is just a cog in a bigger wheel.

Its maybe a bit like Andy Cole going to us from Newcastle and needing to reinvent himself over a number of years because we werent going to play just for him. Maybe Carroll has to do the same. Credit to Cole he worked on his game and got the rewards.

 

[Azza]

It's baffling. He's slow but he's built like a brick **** house and is amazing in the air yet rarely plays in and around the box and falls over as soon as anyone breathes near him.

If he does move it'll be to escape the media witch hunt against him so somewhere abroad.

Amazing in the air... did you not see him jumping and then landing before the ball even reached him today?

 

[Tummy]

Media witch hunt?

 

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Media witch hunt?

Or possibly stating facts.