Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [25th - 27th August 2017]

Given that the only alternative was bringing in that LB you signed in the summer (and lets be fair, he looked **** so far) then assuming what I said re Wenger's thinking was right, yes that's why Bellerin played LWB.

Again, I'm not saying Wenger was right or wrong, just that I'm pretty sure he didn't just do it for a laugh. Imo it was a calculated decision to leave out the new signings in that game.

He can't be any worse than an out of form Bellerin playing out of position. I understand where you are coming from, but if Bellerin was the only alternative then Wenger should have started Kolasinac, still we would have lost but maybe not by so many, think Bellerin was at fault for at least two of the goals.
 
As I said, I'm not saying Wenger's decision was right or wrong, just trying to explain that I'm pretty sure he didn't just do it to **** you guys off. It appears obvious to me that it was a conscious decision to pick players that have experienced that type of game before.

You're right, Bellerin had a terrible game and with hindsight it's easy to say Kolasinac should have played but who knows how he would have done. Given how poor he was positionally vs Leicester, I'm pretty sure on last nights form Salah would have ruined him too.
 
Something deeply deeply wrong at Arsenal. I personally feel like the players don't wont to play for h any more.

The Wenger years are over but in typical Wenger fashion his is too stubborn to see it.

The first step to sorting this out is getting rid of Sanchez. He is unsettling the rest of the players and causing disharmony.
 
Something deeply deeply wrong at Arsenal. I personally feel like the players don't wont to play for h any more.

The Wenger years are over but in typical Wenger fashion his is too stubborn to see it.

The first step to sorting this out is getting rid of Sanchez. He is unsettling the rest of the players and causing disharmony.
Agreed. If he does not want to be here and was it Man City that offered 80m for him? Sell him to them if we have to I say. Not like it will make a huge difference to us strengthening Man City right now. They are almost certain to finish above us whether they get Sanchez or not, at worst we lose 6 points to them. We have bigger things to worry about. Also in a couple of years Sanchez's speed and work rate will likely not be the same anyway.

Only worth keeping Sanchez if he wants to be here. He is not as important as people make out, remember we finished out of the top 4 first time in 20 years with him!
 
Whether you agree with the reasoning or not, I think it was obvious why Wenger left Arsenal's new signings out yesterday. An away game at Liverpool isn't like most other games, particularly since Klopp took over. The atmosphere and intensity that we were going to start the game at wouldn't have been something that they'd experienced before and it's clear (imo at least) that Wenger wanted players that had experienced it before and were less likely to be overwhelmed by it.

lol, Liverpool are the biglyest team in the world and players might get overwhelmed.... seriously?

Welbeck is literally ******* ****, we didn't play our 50mil player because he might get overwhelmed so instead chose to play someone who we absolutely know for a fact will be useless, not overwhelmed by playing at Liverpool, but overwhelmed by the way a ball behaves after he touches it. That one chance he had was amateur hour, he was potentially a little off balance but the way he shaped for the shot, threw he leg low, wrong foot shape, that shot was every time going to go way over the bar when many many decent strikers would have hit the target if not scored.

Wenger has an inability to rate his own players, admit to his mistakes and get rid of players the squad shouldn't have. He's trying to give Ox 180k a week when he has 5x more awful than good games a season, he started Welbeck because he thought a 50mil striker who was in amazing form last season might potentially be worse than him because he hasn't recognised that Welbeck is completely inept. Bought a CB end of last season... plays Monreal at CB, who was complete crap.

Hell, Ozil gets 'overwhelemed' in 98% of our big games, yet he starts and is useless again. Ramsey is horrendous, truly horrendous defensively yet keeps starting in central midfield. THe only time Ramsey was effective he was basically playing as a no.10 and went through a short spell of form where his shooting wasn't crap.

No matter how bad Ozil is, he starts these games regardless, no matter how poor OX is, he gets a new contract, same with Walcott and a half dozen other players, a couple dozen players over the past decade who got to hang around while barely trying. There is no reason for a single player to try harder or improve because Wenger shows game after game that he believes they are already playing at the level required, that they are undroppable and deserve more money. Wenger has become a complete joke and he's turned Arsenal into one.
 
Whether you agree with the reasoning or not, I think it was obvious why Wenger left Arsenal's new signings out yesterday. An away game at Liverpool isn't like most other games, particularly since Klopp took over. The atmosphere and intensity that we were going to start the game at wouldn't have been something that they'd experienced before and it's clear (imo at least) that Wenger wanted players that had experienced it before and were less likely to be overwhelmed by it.
I can't tell if this is a serious post or not.
 
I can't tell if this is a serious post or not.
Why not?

I'm not saying it's the hardest game Arsenal will play or we're the best side but the intensity of the game was going to be greater than most other games. The way that we were going to play would have been almost like a derby type intensity - we were going to start the game at 100mph, not give their players any time on the ball and press the life out of them. It's not uncommon for managers not to throw new players into that type of game.
lol, Liverpool are the biglyest team in the world and players might get overwhelmed.... seriously?

I'm not sure what biglyest is but I was referring to the atmosphere, pace and intensity of the game. Liverpool were always going to start that game at 100mph and it's something that catches teams out. Look at Hoffenheim - prior to the game their coach and players were playing down the difference between playing at home or at Anfield, 20 minutes into the game and they're 3-0 down. We blew them away.

edit: Whenever Neville commentates on big games at Anfield he always comments on the importance of the away side being prepared and able to get through the first 20-30 minutes.
 
lol, Liverpool are the biglyest team in the world and players might get overwhelmed.... seriously?

Welbeck is literally ******* ****, we didn't play our 50mil player because he might get overwhelmed so instead chose to play someone who we absolutely know for a fact will be useless, not overwhelmed by playing at Liverpool, but overwhelmed by the way a ball behaves after he touches it. That one chance he had was amateur hour, he was potentially a little off balance but the way he shaped for the shot, threw he leg low, wrong foot shape, that shot was every time going to go way over the bar when many many decent strikers would have hit the target if not scored.

Wenger has an inability to rate his own players, admit to his mistakes and get rid of players the squad shouldn't have. He's trying to give Ox 180k a week when he has 5x more awful than good games a season, he started Welbeck because he thought a 50mil striker who was in amazing form last season might potentially be worse than him because he hasn't recognised that Welbeck is completely inept. Bought a CB end of last season... plays Monreal at CB, who was complete crap.

Hell, Ozil gets 'overwhelemed' in 98% of our big games, yet he starts and is useless again. Ramsey is horrendous, truly horrendous defensively yet keeps starting in central midfield. THe only time Ramsey was effective he was basically playing as a no.10 and went through a short spell of form where his shooting wasn't crap.

No matter how bad Ozil is, he starts these games regardless, no matter how poor OX is, he gets a new contract, same with Walcott and a half dozen other players, a couple dozen players over the past decade who got to hang around while barely trying. There is no reason for a single player to try harder or improve because Wenger shows game after game that he believes they are already playing at the level required, that they are undroppable and deserve more money. Wenger has become a complete joke and he's turned Arsenal into one.


It's all Wenger fault. You saw how disciplined Ramsay was playing for Wales at the European Championships.

None of them have any faith in Wenger anymore. It's like being in a job when you've handed in your notice and just seeing out the remainder of your notice period. Your work rate drops and you don't really care any more.

That's exactly whats happened at Arsenal.

I'd say at least 7-8 players of the first 11 have lost faith in Wenger.

We are fast turning in to a top 6-7 side. Sliding down the table.
 
Arsenal have given Wenger some fairly decent funding, it all boils down to him. Sure, the owners may not be popular, but that's the case at Man Utd too.

Wenger has absolute control of everything Arsenal do, it's more like Arsene Wenger FC these days. The only reason he's such a long serving manager is because the Arsenal board have allowed it. Wenger has been under-performing badly for the majority of the past decade.

Sure, Arsenal can string together a decent run against mainly weaker teams, generally in the latter part of the season when the pressure is off, but really they aren't great.

That performance yesterday was just standard Arsenal, disorganised, weak and soundly beaten. We've all seen it loads of times before.

Still, I'm not complaining... :p
 
Wenger has been under-performing badly for the majority of the past decade.
Has he? He's had at least 3 if not 4 clubs outspending him every year and until last season has always finished within the top 4.

The problem hasn't so much been the end result because more often than not they've finished where they 'should', the problem has been that nothing has changed and there's no sign of things changing. Every single issue at Arsenal is exactly the same as 10 years ago.

Supporters want to see progress being made. Even if things ultimately don't quite improve, if there's signs that you're working towards something and are aware of what needs changing then supporters will often be more sympathetic.
 
Has he? He's had at least 3 if not 4 clubs outspending him every year and until last season has always finished within the top 4.

The problem hasn't so much been the end result because more often than not they've finished where they 'should', the problem has been that nothing has changed and there's no sign of things changing. Every single issue at Arsenal is exactly the same as 10 years ago.

Supporters want to see progress being made. Even if things ultimately don't quite improve, if there's signs that you're working towards something and are aware of what needs changing then supporters will often be more sympathetic.

It depends really. Is the spending down to Wenger thinking he can buy cheaper players and make them better, or the board refusing to spend at a certain level? If it's the former then it's Wenger's fault.

Every season Arsenal's goal has been to finish first, if it was fourth then maybe it's not so bad, but they claim to want to win the league...

Either way, the rest of what you said is true, they're just standing still and not making any progress.
 
No chance of Arsenal braking in to the top 4 this season. Spurs, Chelsea, Man U and Man C and Liverpool will all finish above us.
So could no champions league football two years in a row see the end of Wenger? Would the board, who for some at least view Arsenal as an investment and expect regular CL income, put up with that? Anyone coming in would likely want substantial funds to buy players. Would they be willing to sanction a £200 million kitty in addition to player sales?
 
So could no champions league football two years in a row see the end of Wenger? Would the board, who for some at least view Arsenal as an investment and expect regular CL income, put up with that? Anyone coming in would likely want substantial funds to buy players. Would they be willing to sanction a £200 million kitty in addition to player sales?

Unless the performances improve substantially - will AW actually still be at Arsenal by the end of the season? Surely thats relegation form (certainly first 45 minutes at least)
 
This looks as bad if not worse than the total collapse we had post Bayern Munich.

Whilst other clubs have moved forward we have stayed still allowing them to over take us.

The Wenger years are over. Our time as a top four club are over. We need a new manager and a new project to begin at Arsenal.

The issue we have though is that people dont think a change of manager is enough. We need a change at board level as well.
 
The article seems to suggest that players no longer want to play/sign for Arsenal. If not the players, why would a different/better manager want to join?

Many of Arsenals problems can be attributed to the money Chelsea and Man City have bought into the league, and the players they have taken directly from the club.

It's just tougher now. Player are fickle. There's no silver bullet.

Our time as a top four club are over.

You could say the same about all clubs. There are 6 clubs in with a serious shout, competing for 4 places. Arsenal miss out but 2 points last season.
 
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This seems to sum up the Arsenal situation quite well.
Think that article slightly over does the praise for the double ("the best in the land" after one successful season - really???) but on the whole is a reasonable assessment

Were Hleb and Flamini really that great - they were good, but not world beaters (according to wiki the latter - also appeared to miss a lot of matches for 6 out of 9 years at Arsenal and Milan)

why would a different/better manager want to join?
.
Up and coming UK based managers looking for a step up in profile, promised time to change things at the club, a lot of managers from overseas looking to come to the EPL.

Even in its current position, Arsenal is still a huge attraction for a lot of managers (if / when the board stop dithering over AW)

Obviously they would probably insist on getting a few signings in the door in the next window but really looking at next summer now given the difficulties of the Jan window.
 
Has he? He's had at least 3 if not 4 clubs outspending him every year and until last season has always finished within the top 4.

The problem hasn't so much been the end result because more often than not they've finished where they 'should', the problem has been that nothing has changed and there's no sign of things changing. Every single issue at Arsenal is exactly the same as 10 years ago.

Supporters want to see progress being made. Even if things ultimately don't quite improve, if there's signs that you're working towards something and are aware of what needs changing then supporters will often be more sympathetic.


Spending more denotes potential for competitiveness, it doesn't correlate to league finishes. A team with a 70mil wage budget isn't going to consistently compete for the league with a bunch of teams spending around 200mil, and a 200mil team won't beat a 190mil team every year but they will consistently (but not every year) beat teams with a 70mil budget.

Arsenal have been around the top 3 in budget and a massive gap from Spurs and those behind for a decade. They should some years compete for first, maybe a couple of years come 5th. Has it been City, Chelsea, Utd, Arsenal every year? Or do those teams change order most years, with some really bad years for both CHelsea and Utd?

We're absolutely in amongst the top wage spenders, we have a huge squad rather than a much smaller higher wage individual squad such as Chelsea or City and there is no reason for it.

Most years when CHelsea/City/Utd went out of the CL, it would be by 1-2 goals against a top team, when Arsenal do it we get blown out of the water by a team and sometimes 'make a come back' in a second leg when the other team has decided not to waste energy after being 4 goals up from the first leg.

4th isn't okay because we spend the 4th highest in the league. 4th highest, and 10 times closer in spending to the top 3 than the 3 below us, means we should be competing in that group, not competing in the group below, nothing more or less. We absolutely should have both won or genuinely competed for(ie, capable of winning in the last 2-3 games of the season still) the league 2-3 times at least in a decade. We shouldn't flop so heavily EVERY year in the champions league and we absolutely shouldn't have the **** poor excuse for a squad we have now.

Leicester, Dortmund, Atletico have all won their leagues while spending 1/3rd of what the biggest team in the league does, 4th highest spender doesn't make finishing 4th okay, at all. Two of those have also been drastically more competitive in the champions league than Arsenal have achieved in the past 10 years. Atletico and Dortmund, still on a fraction of Arsenal's budget, consistently get to latter stages than us.

We have massively underperformed in the past decade. Every team has ups and downs.... except Arsenal has no ups, every single year without fail we flop hard in the massive majority of big games, we fail to show up and that is why we never have an 'up' year.
 
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