To be fair, Moyes managed 7th and LVG Managed 4th and has got us into the champions league. In prestige and monetary terms to the club that is a monumental difference.
Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [28th - 31st August 2015]
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To be fair, Moyes managed 7th and LVG Managed 4th and has got us into the champions league. In prestige and monetary terms to the club that is a monumental difference.
... a difference many would argue was as much due to the decline of the other teams as the rise of United, until a late season tail off, even Southampton were looking good for a CL spot, that's how poorly the usual powerhouses played for most of the season 
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... a difference many would argue was as much due to the decline of the other teams as the rise of United, until a late season tail off, even Southampton were looking good for a CL spot, that's how poorly the usual powerhouses played for most of the season
Irrelevant. Moyes turned a title winning team into 7th place, LVG restored us to CL football. It is as simple as that.
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That was never a title winning team to be fair but it did highlight how good Ferguson was.
It's not entirely irrelevant, whilst you can only be asked to beat what's in front of you, lauding someone for achieving a position I think can be misguided when it is so dependent on the performance of others around you and not just yourself.
It's a bit of a pointless argument though in most respects as we can't compare to say Moyes or Ferguson managing over the same season
Ultimately, looking from the outside, I don't see big changes in United, I wouldn't fear going there any more under LVG than under Moyes, the position improved but did the football really? I'm not convinced he's really transformed that team, just reaped the benefits of being there at the right time.
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No you can't compare because Moyes named an almost unchanged side for a huge number of games, by unchanged i mean the same as the previous season but got worse and worse results.
LVG came in, 3 of the back four had retired or left, several other players left. To begin with he had a significantly changed first team squad and on top of that Utd had an absolute disaster in the first 2-3 months with injuries.
LVG did significantly better than Moyes with a hugely changed squad and a massive injury crisis. Moyes with no significant issues, no big changes in the squad and no injury crisis managed to do absolutely terribly.
LVG came in, 3 of the back four had retired or left, several other players left. To begin with he had a significantly changed first team squad and on top of that Utd had an absolute disaster in the first 2-3 months with injuries.
LVG did significantly better than Moyes with a hugely changed squad and a massive injury crisis. Moyes with no significant issues, no big changes in the squad and no injury crisis managed to do absolutely terribly.
Moyes had no injury crisis? You lot spent the season saying how moyes training was wrecking players. The standard of the top 4 was also higher in moyes year. So we're the rest of the top 6. Moyes choked but lvg is not much of an improvement unless you want dire football and wrecked players. The change in squad was a bonus for lvg, moyes didn't have the balls to drop the older players, the job was done for lvg. If lvg followed Ferguson he wouldn't be there now either.
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Nice rewrite of history but no, that isn't true. Moyes played RVP when told by the medical staff he wasn't ready to play yet. Moyes lost to Newcastle IIRC and came out after the game saying he had been told to absolutely not play him for more than 60 minutes but he was scared of the reaction to taking a striker off while being behind against Newcastle so kept him on. They lost anyway and RVP got injured for another couple of months.
Wrecking players in training was not something anyone accused Moyes of and that was ONE FREAKING PLAYER. Look at the squads used in Moyes first 10 games vs the last 10 games the year before. Consistency and experience means a lot. Look where Newcastle finished the year fitness/lack of injuries meant naming almost the same side every game throughout the year. Then the following year with extra games playing a different side almost every game. Dortmund this year naming an unchanged side as injuries eased off.
Moyes made an active decision to hurt RVP against medical advice for a pathetic reason and hurt the season and the team further with that cowardly decision. LVG had genuine injuries, a load of them. He couldn't name the same defensive line up for months. LVG was accused of wrecking players with hard training multiple times, Moyes never was. Moyes was just accused of being a complete idiot, which he was.
Wrecking players in training was not something anyone accused Moyes of and that was ONE FREAKING PLAYER. Look at the squads used in Moyes first 10 games vs the last 10 games the year before. Consistency and experience means a lot. Look where Newcastle finished the year fitness/lack of injuries meant naming almost the same side every game throughout the year. Then the following year with extra games playing a different side almost every game. Dortmund this year naming an unchanged side as injuries eased off.
Moyes made an active decision to hurt RVP against medical advice for a pathetic reason and hurt the season and the team further with that cowardly decision. LVG had genuine injuries, a load of them. He couldn't name the same defensive line up for months. LVG was accused of wrecking players with hard training multiple times, Moyes never was. Moyes was just accused of being a complete idiot, which he was.
If anyone thinks Moyes had a fair crack at the whip still, you need your head examining. Fergies gut instinct was right, all the board choked and Moyes's head was on the chopping block. He should still be there now just ticking things over until the squad is half decent again and able to compete at the very top. It was always going to be an extremely difficult few years after Fergie, a bit of patience was required
Yes they did and I'm sure you were one of them, complaining about his training methods being high intensity and not with the ball. Loads on here banged on about it after the Dutch guy spouted off about his dinosaur style of training.
United wouldn't have been able to attract half the players LvG has with Moyes still there, Vidic/Evra leaving was a fairly obvious sign of how much respect the players had for him, working under Phil Neville must have felt pretty insulting as well.
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Sorry I meant to say big name signings, even if they joined for ridiculous money they aren't going to break their backs playing for a manager and backroom staff that they have no faith in. If Moyes had stayed longer it's likely you'd have lost more key players as well.
They would have if the club had been behind the club brand and Moyes. You have people like Zaha getting with his daughter. Ferdinand saying stuff on twitter. It sets everything off. . Yea..Ferdinand was a better player but there is some way to go before being the man who runs a football club. Moyes was Fergie's gut instinct, foreign players wouldn't have know who Moyes really was, but they would have respected the club and fergie who chose the guy. Moyes must be pulling his hair out at the moment.
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The thing is, the utd board were looking for someone experienced to come in and take the reigns expecting LVG to take control and know what was best and have followed his instructions.
Sadly LVG has no guile about his craft. Everythingis LVG way or the highway. Except the LVG way is often not the best and sometimes the worst. He's a dictatorial character eho isolates and upsets players very quickly. His tactics and team selection is also often questionable.
Sadly LVG has no guile about his craft. Everythingis LVG way or the highway. Except the LVG way is often not the best and sometimes the worst. He's a dictatorial character eho isolates and upsets players very quickly. His tactics and team selection is also often questionable.