Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [2nd - 7th December 2011]

BaZ87 said:
You say that but we all know that everybody wishes he played for their team.

They say there's a fine line between genius and mad, and he certainly straddles the line at times.
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I am being 100% honest here, I wouldn't want him at WHL.

I would take Jose Enrique though thankyou very much :)
 
BaZ87 said:
Is that aimed at me specifically or the internet fans in general that hate Bale?
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i thought you were the (one of many) who may have said he is overrated. how on earth can anyone hate bale? seriously. he's nothing but a model professional who gives 100% every game and gives great entertainment value.
 
I've said many times that he's a excellent player. On the whole overrated/underrated stuff (and I've said this before); the section of the media that are/were making him out to be on a par with Messi was just as ridiculous as the people that claim he's average.
 
BaZ87 said:
You say that but we all know that everybody wishes he played for their team.

They say there's a fine line between genius and mad, and he certainly straddles the line at times.
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Balotelli straddles the line between genius and mad. Suarez straddles the line between good footballer and ****head :p

What you've said regarding Suarez in the Kompany incident is exactly what I'm getting at in the other thread. There's a coming together and Suarez has used that as an opportunity to appeal for a foul/gain an advantage. Morally is that any different to a player appealing for a throw-in that he know's he's not going to get? And therfore should we be punishing players that wrongly appeal thow-ins or corners.

How many times are the roles reversed and the defender's trying to allow the ball to run out of play, steps in front of the attacker and then throws himself to the ground to win a free-kick. Why don't we care when a defender does it in that instance but we do when a striker is doing it?
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Morally it's cheating, realistically stealing a pack of sweets is different to stealing the contents of the shop. I think you're missing my point a little but I will say that I think the consequences of the action and to the severity of the punishment should be generally proportional. Suarez was trying to get Kompany sent off, he's clearly acting to gain a very serious advantage. Not a throw in, not a corner, he's trying to get a man sent off the pitch. Retrospectively that should probably be taken into account, as his cheating will have a far greater bearing on the game.

I don't condone any type of cheating, but sometimes you have to set aside the straw men and use a little common sense. Trying to claim a throw in you didn't win and trying to get a player sent off, technically both cheating, but there is clearly a huge difference between the two. And stopping the worse of the two, even if it doesn't lead to stopping the lesser of the two, is better than having both.

Ultimately my point is that it comes down to the claim, which as both of your examples I believe would be adequately covered by this system. A player claims a throw in he didn't win, it directly leads to a goal (Delap special or whatever), it's looked at afterwards and decided he knew the throw in wasn't his and it handed a one match ban. If the throw in leads to nothing as most do, it isn't looked at. Same for the goal kick, player goes down, claims a free kick. If they're the only two players left for example, look at it again. If there are loads of defenders around and the likely outcome would just be the defender knocking it out for a throw, don't bother. Referees already look back a decisions throughout a game as it is, I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to make a note of a few points to be covered by the panel (or whoever). Even if Suarez only got a retrospective yellow for that challenge, they mount up to bans, if he already had one say it's the same as receiving two yellows in the match and he's banned for the next one.

Edit: Just to be clear, even if you get someone to agree with you that claiming for a throw in is acceptable, despite being cheating, it doesn't mean that what Suarez did is ok because they're morally similar. We'll have none of those straw men in here :p
 
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Suarez reminds me so much of El Hadj Diouf, well he is infact worse. Cannot stand him.

What made it worse for me is that whilst he swore v Fulham last night he was wearing a black armband in tribute to such a top pro who would never had done that.

Spitting, racism, swearing and diving etc all need to be kicked out of the game, the odd game we get Balotelli diving for example but Suarez is a weekly occurrence.
 
BaZ87 said:
I've said many times that he's a excellent player. On the whole overrated/underrated stuff (and I've said this before); the section of the media that are/were making him out to be on a par with Messi was just as ridiculous as the people that claim he's average.
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This I would agree with. He is clearly an excellent footballer. Still doesn't seem to be putting it on the board much though? I've not seen every minute he's played this season, has he just spooned a lot of chances or is it more team related?
 
Adrianr said:
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Whether Suarez is trying to get Kompany sent off or simply to win a free-kick only he knows. Ultimately all he's doing is appealing for a decision to go his way like a player appealing for a throw-in. What happens as a result of the decision going their way is a variable that they have little or no control of.

Using the thow-in example and a 1 match ban if it leads to a goal. Winning the throw-in is the offense not the fact that you may or may not score from the resulting throw. By the same reasoning you'd only ban players that dive for a penalty if the resulting penalty is scored?

Unless a dive is absolutely clear cut tha the player has thrown himself to ground under no contact, you're not going to be able to retrospectively punish a player because if you did, where would you then draw the line.
 
BaZ87 said:
Whether Suarez is trying to get Kompany sent off or simply to win a free-kick only he knows. Ultimately all he's doing is appealing for a decision to go his way like a player appealing for a throw-in. What happens as a result of the decision going their way is a variable that they have little or no control of.

Using the thow-in example and a 1 match ban if it leads to a goal. Winning the throw-in is the offense not the fact that you may or may not score from the resulting throw. By the same reasoning you'd only ban players that dive for a penalty if the resulting penalty is scored?

Unless a dive is absolutely clear cut tha the player has thrown himself to ground under no contact, you're not going to be able to retrospectively punish a player because if you did, where would you then draw the line.
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It really couldn't be any more obvious, ones that ARE clear dives, punish, ones you're not sure on......... don't? Does that really need to be explained to any one?

Right now there is, ref maybe didn't see it, snap decision no replays, a HUGE number of these go the wrong way.

If we start punishing the obvious ones, a few not dives WILL get caught in the crossfire........ the very simple question is, will that be more or a absolute crapload LESS wrong decisions than are currently occurring, the answer is very clearly a crapload less.

But ultimately the key thing is, IF we start giving out punishment for cheating...... people will stop cheating and when they aren't handing out 15 bans for diving a week(probably by the third week of angry managers fining their players for stupidity) then the genuine and not genuine will be easier to spot also.

When there is little to no chance of punishment, EVERYONE is at it for everything, the SECOND people start getting punished, the vast majority of players will stop cheating, and nothing could be better for football, not least because I want to see genuine attacking and defending at set pieces again.

Does anyone remember when Chelsea got good, how awesome they were at set pieces, there was some shirt pulling but no where near what its like now, teams used to actually stand outside the box and run in all kinds of directions attacking the plays. Then everyone just started grabbing everyone, and its a rare team that doesn't have the vast majority in a bundle all holding each others shirts and shoving people over.

As for a throw in, the other key thing you really have to remember is, for half the "asking for a throw in" situations, while we in the stands or on tv can see the ball clearly, you fail to recognise how often someone standing right next to the ball can't actually tell who it touches last, it might be just behind them and they don't realise it grazes their boot or something.

Because SO often players don't know whose throw in it is, it simply became standard to ask for it, its not cheating its just, part of football, not in a terrible way.

When you run over, stand on someones ankle and throw yourself to the ground when nothing sent you down........... you are cheating, when you ask for the freekick, you're cheating again, when its a player you got a yellow card already and have been targeting for the whole match trying to get him sent off, its reprehensible and in no way comparable to getting a throw in.


Hmm, even more how many times a weekend do you see a defender let the ball go out, then a corner is given, or someone let a ball go for a throw in just to see it go the other way, not hugely often, but often enough, again showing that a lot of the time players don't actually know whose throw in/corner it actually is. Players aren't always looking at the ball but at the space, the players they are marking, all around.

Now many times do players throw themselves to the ground without contact and claim a freekick not knowing what they've done....... you thought I'd say never, but that isn't true. That Torres clip is a classic, and I remember a freaking awesome Hasselbaink penalty(as in hilarious, not that he won it), Torres clips himself, but thought someone else did, he wasn't cheating, he simply didn't know. Hasselbaink kicked the living crap out of the turf before the ball, went down and thought he'd been clipped, but he wasn't.

There will be rare times someone gets a ban for something they didn't do......... but again, that happens ALREADY, frequently, far too frequently while even more frequently people get away with cheating.

Reviewing the incidents and banning people will get some decisions wrong, but it will get a hugely higher percentage right than is currently happening, and this WILL lead to a massive drop in cheating in the first place.
 
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drunkenmaster said:
That Torres clip is a classic, and I remember a freaking awesome Hasselbaink penalty(as in hilarious, not that he won it), Torres clips himself, but thought someone else did, he wasn't cheating, he simply didn't know. Hasselbaink kicked the living crap out of the turf before the ball, went down and thought he'd been clipped, but he wasn't.

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That was against Spurs at WHL, we've had some of the worst decisions the game has ever seen given against us. Mendes anyone?
 
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