Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [2nd - 7th December 2011]

Yep.

Players get fouled and exaggerate the dive to ensure the ref gives it, but they're still fouled.

A foul is a foul.

I can't stand this idea that players need to exaggerate the contact, it's a foul?

The Referee should have enough about him to spot the foul, regardless of if the player goes down easy. Referee's are far too easily intimidated and lack the confidence to make big decisions. (maybe its partly the crowd and partly Sky not wanting a player to be sent off and "ruin" the game, just look at how many "fouls" the top six in England get away with, this isn't a dig at anyone, it's just an observation, certain players get away with far more too.)

I can't stand the Sky view point that "He got the ball" someone makes everything okay.
 
A foul is a foul.

I can't stand this idea that players need to exaggerate the contact, it's a foul?

The Referee should have enough about him to spot the foul, regardless of if the player goes down easy. Referee's are far too easily intimidated and lack the confidence to make big decisions. (maybe its partly the crowd and partly Sky not wanting a player to be sent off and "ruin" the game, just look at how many "fouls" the top six in England get away with, this isn't a dig at anyone, it's just an observation, certain players get away with far more too.)

I can't stand the Sky view point that "He got the ball" someone makes everything okay.

The players don't have confidence in the ref's making the correct decision. Let's be honest, they make mistakes after mistakes. A dive is different to a an exaggerated dive from a foul though :p
 
I don't really see that as a problem though, the players should play football. Referee's need to start booking players that approach them after a decision has been given, put less pressure on the referee during the game and he'll be more settled, relaxed and will give more correct decisions. (We hope, some referee's I'm looking at you Stuart ****well, will always give mental decisions)

Referee's do make mistakes, probably a lot less then players make over the course of a season. It's like that line Sir Alex used t'other day, that decision could cost us at the end of the season... well so could your sides inability to score another goal?

Referee's are often made scape goats because it's easier.

A dive is different to an exaggeration, yeah, but you shouldn't need to exaggerate a foul, if it's a foul it should be given regardless of a player acting like he's been shot. I've always viewed exaggerating fouls as a way of getting a player potentially booked.

Diving is horrible, because it's just a basic form of cheating, there are lots of people who view things like exaggerating contact as cheating, or time wasting on purpose (kicking the ball away, not giving the ball back for free kicks / throw ins) but I've always seen those as more of just a dirty tactic to gain a little advantage.

At the highest level those things have much bigger impacts on results and outcomes of games then one bad refereeing decision.

Also; which ever person says that it's these foreign players waving cards about are ruining the game, literally someone nearby punch them in the face. All footballers ask referee's for cards, foreign players are just used to waving the cards as a gesture it's a culture thing.
 
Maybe and maybe players should be encouraged to stay on their feet with the promise that retrospective punishment for their offenders will be taken but that effectively we need not only the FA to have a panel that watches every single game but at least 11 cameras set aside for every game following every player on the pitch to make sure they pick up every single incident.

Not going to happen is it?

Limit it to red cards and incidents that lead to goals. There's already multiple cameras at every game.

Remember that we already have a dubious goals panel. Is a panel for diving really going to be that much more work?
 
It's very difficult though what with opinions etc.

You only have to look in here last night to see two polar opinions on the Spearing tackle, same incident, we're all looking at the same pictures yet there are two totally different opinions, with diving it's even more complicated!
 
Is a panel for diving really going to be that much more work?

I'm all for retrospective punishment for diving. The problem will come from different peoples interpretation. has a player dived, has a player simply fell hurdling a challenge, has a player played for the contact and is that acceptable?

Unless it's absolutely clear cut, it will be nigh on impossible to punish somebody.
 
It's very difficult though what with opinions etc.

You only have to look in here last night to see two polar opinions on the Spearing tackle, same incident, we're all looking at the same pictures yet there are two totally different opinions, with diving it's even more complicated!

lol, the polar opinions are generally anyone not from the red side of Liverpool, stupidly obvious red card, red side of liverpool..... something about momentum that causes an off the ground, studs in contact half way up someone's shin completely fine :p


Diving can be hard, but can be pretty obvious, that's the thing, punish the obvious ones, that will be enough and will put off people trying it.

When there is nothing to really discourage people doing it, they'll try it on, when SOME people are being punished, the risk becomes vastly higher and people will either not do it, or do it less often.

This is the thing that I've said before would be great about ref's getting replay's, within probably 2 games of video replays being introduced we'd have people stop pulling shirts in the box, stopping diving, stopping most of the crap they get up to because they'll be caught, easily. You get a few games where the ref spends a bit of time on the sideline, so what, when people realise the punishment and STOP cheating, there will be less incidents which need video replays to work out. It would likely fix 90% of diving, cheating and game changing incorrect decisions within a couple of weeks.


ANyway I've always found that 99% of dives can simply be caught by, errm, general physics, when someone has both legs chopped out from under him say, its VERY rare if not impossible for that player to then gain height by jumping. When its a dive and someone often jumps........ its a dive.

The Suarez/Kompany one, why did he start spinning, why is he already asking for the freekick on the way down. Gerrard tends to be obvious as he seemingly always has time to do an impression of a starfish before hitting tucking back in and hitting the ground fairly safely.

Larrson at the weekend, there was minor contact but the dive was obvious because he jumped and went up before going down, and it was far too, controlled.
 
There's plenty of cases where there's no contact (or the contact has been initiated by the diver) and it's obvious.

Handing out 3 match bans would either eradicate the problem or at least create better divers. :p
 
I'm all for retrospective punishment for diving. The problem will come from different peoples interpretation. has a player dived, has a player simply fell hurdling a challenge, has a player played for the contact and is that acceptable?

Unless it's absolutely clear cut, it will be nigh on impossible to punish somebody.

Key will be in the reaction here I think and places more onus on the player to be honest. Take the Suarez/Kompany gif as an example (as it's here and current :p), Suarez is clearly going down like he's been shot trying to win a free kick/get Kompany carded. A clear case for retrospective punishment for trying to cheat his way to an advantage. If he'd stood on Kompanys foot and just fell to the floor, and hadn't tried to claim for a free kick, then you can't really punish him for diving, because he's not tried to gain anything from his fall.

If a player goes down claiming a free kick and it's genuine, it will look genuine to a panel afterwards. They can say it wasn't deemed to be a foul, but his reaction to the incident was honest. Would stop players going down under zero contact and claiming for a free kick because videos shown to the panel would clearly show no contact.
 
lol, the polar opinions are generally anyone not from the red side of Liverpool, stupidly obvious red card, red side of liverpool..... something about momentum that causes an off the ground, studs in contact half way up someone's shin completely fine :p


Diving can be hard, but can be pretty obvious, that's the thing, punish the obvious ones, that will be enough and will put off people trying it.

When there is nothing to really discourage people doing it, they'll try it on, when SOME people are being punished, the risk becomes vastly higher and people will either not do it, or do it less often.

This is the thing that I've said before would be great about ref's getting replay's, within probably 2 games of video replays being introduced we'd have people stop pulling shirts in the box, stopping diving, stopping most of the crap they get up to because they'll be caught, easily. You get a few games where the ref spends a bit of time on the sideline, so what, when people realise the punishment and STOP cheating, there will be less incidents which need video replays to work out. It would likely fix 90% of diving, cheating and game changing incorrect decisions within a couple of weeks.


ANyway I've always found that 99% of dives can simply be caught by, errm, general physics, when someone has both legs chopped out from under him say, its VERY rare if not impossible for that player to then gain height by jumping. When its a dive and someone often jumps........ its a dive.

The Suarez/Kompany one, why did he start spinning, why is he already asking for the freekick on the way down. Gerrard tends to be obvious as he seemingly always has time to do an impression of a starfish before hitting tucking back in and hitting the ground fairly safely.

Larrson at the weekend, there was minor contact but the dive was obvious because he jumped and went up before going down, and it was far too, controlled.

So what your saying is if someone is fouled but they exaggerate it at all its a dive?
 
Key will be in the reaction here I think and places more onus on the player to be honest. Take the Suarez/Kompany gif as an example (as it's here and current :p), Suarez is clearly going down like he's been shot trying to win a free kick/get Kompany carded. A clear case for retrospective punishment for trying to cheat his way to an advantage. If he'd stood on Kompanys foot and just fell to the floor, and hadn't tried to claim for a free kick, then you can't really punish him for diving, because he's not tried to gain anything from his fall.

If a player goes down claiming a free kick and it's genuine, it will look genuine to a panel afterwards. They can say it wasn't deemed to be a foul, but his reaction to the incident was honest. Would stop players going down under zero contact and claiming for a free kick because videos shown to the panel would clearly show no contact.

Didn't realise they'd have Cal Lightman at their disposal for judging this.
 
Key will be in the reaction here I think and places more onus on the player to be honest. Take the Suarez/Kompany gif as an example (as it's here and current :p), Suarez is clearly going down like he's been shot trying to win a free kick/get Kompany carded. A clear case for retrospective punishment for trying to cheat his way to an advantage. If he'd stood on Kompanys foot and just fell to the floor, and hadn't tried to claim for a free kick, then you can't really punish him for diving, because he's not tried to gain anything from his fall.

If a player goes down claiming a free kick and it's genuine, it will look genuine to a panel afterwards. They can say it wasn't deemed to be a foul, but his reaction to the incident was honest. Would stop players going down under zero contact and claiming for a free kick because videos shown to the panel would clearly show no contact.

What you've said regarding Suarez in the Kompany incident is exactly what I'm getting at in the other thread. There's a coming together and Suarez has used that as an opportunity to appeal for a foul/gain an advantage. Morally is that any different to a player appealing for a throw-in that he know's he's not going to get? And therfore should we be punishing players that wrongly appeal thow-ins or corners.

How many times are the roles reversed and the defender's trying to allow the ball to run out of play, steps in front of the attacker and then throws himself to the ground to win a free-kick. Why don't we care when a defender does it in that instance but we do when a striker is doing it?
 
What you've said regarding Suarez in the Kompany incident is exactly what I'm getting at in the other thread. There's a coming together and Suarez has used that as an opportunity to appeal for a foul/gain an advantage. Morally is that any different to a player appealing for a throw-in that he know's he's not going to get? And therfore should we be punishing players that wrongly appeal thow-ins or corners.

How many times are the roles reversed and the defender's trying to allow the ball to run out of play, steps in front of the attacker and then throws himself to the ground to win a free-kick. Why don't we care when a defender does it in that instance but we do when a striker is doing it?

Because 99% of the time, even when defenders do "go down easily" when protecting the ball, something they are fully allowed to do, the likely hood is that if they don't, the ball goes out or they end up forced to kick it out for a throw in or corner, the chance for the attacker to get the ball and score is stupidly low, off the top of my head I can't remember the last time it happened. The angle is bad, there is often plenty of time for other defenders to get back(as this usually happens towards the edge of the box or towards the corner) and rarely will teams run up assuming the attacker will get the ball so there is little support.

When Suarez did what he did, he did it to get Kompany a second yellow card........

That's the difference, the one you describe is a "soft" foul in a not particularly dangerous situation where the attacking player rarely IF EVER gets a yellow card for doing it. Suarez on the other hand was trying to get someone sent off. Cheating isn't good, there ARE level's of cheating and getting a soft freekick in a situation that almost never turns into real danger, vs trying to get someone sent off...... after you tread on their ankle, is not far off as bad as it gets.


If an attacking pulls a players shirt in the penalty area to try to get to the ball first, its usually not a yellow, just a standard, frequent freekick to the opposition , if a defender does it, same deal, if a defender pulls back an attacker who would be through on goal, its a red card. Realistically the severity of the foul, is the situation that might occur due to it. Trying to get someone sent off is game changing, getting a soft foul in the corner instead of getting a goal kick..... meh.
 
Because 99% of the time, even when defenders do "go down easily" when protecting the ball, something they are fully allowed to do, the likely hood is that if they don't, the ball goes out or they end up forced to kick it out for a throw in or corner, the chance for the attacker to get the ball and score is stupidly low, off the top of my head I can't remember the last time it happened. The angle is bad, there is often plenty of time for other defenders to get back(as this usually happens towards the edge of the box or towards the corner) and rarely will teams run up assuming the attacker will get the ball so there is little support.

When Suarez did what he did, he did it to get Kompany a second yellow card........

That's the difference, the one you describe is a "soft" foul in a not particularly dangerous situation where the attacking player rarely IF EVER gets a yellow card for doing it. Suarez on the other hand was trying to get someone sent off. Cheating isn't good, there ARE level's of cheating and getting a soft freekick in a situation that almost never turns into real danger, vs trying to get someone sent off...... after you tread on their ankle, is not far off as bad as it gets.


If an attacking pulls a players shirt in the penalty area to try to get to the ball first, its usually not a yellow, just a standard, frequent freekick to the opposition , if a defender does it, same deal, if a defender pulls back an attacker who would be through on goal, its a red card. Realistically the severity of the foul, is the situation that might occur due to it. Trying to get someone sent off is game changing, getting a soft foul in the corner instead of getting a goal kick..... meh.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Elongated them somewhat, but it is you, so ill let you off :p
 
Took the words right out of my mouth. Elongated them somewhat, but it is you, so ill let you off :p

He's said a lot without anwering the actual point. Conning the ref is conning the ref. Whether you're appealing for a throw-in on the half way line that you know shouldn't go your way or whether you're going to ground over a non-existent tackle in the penalty area with the scores level in the 90th minute. Morally there's no difference between the two yet we condone 1 but not the other.
 
this sums suarez up

suarez-s350x263-243375.gif
 
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