Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [2nd - 7th December 2011]
- Thread starter red11
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Looks very much like the Chile players knee connects with Torres' boot, that's why the Chile player breaks his stride too and from then on Torres trips over himself, definitely doesn't look like a dive, we've all done something similar before. A red though?
Second yellow I think, can't remember.
I couldn't disagree more with the first point. Until officials start giving decisions based on the challenge rather than the reaction then players have every right to go to ground under minimal contact. 99 times out of 100, when a player is fouled but stays on his feet, the foul is not given. Suarez found that out himself when he was tripped in our CC game at Stoke; he stumbled but stayed on his feet and took an off-balanced shot when had he gone down he'd have had a penalty. Similarly yesterday, when Dempsey pushes his head into Bellamy's face (twice), if Bellamy clutches his face or goes to ground then Dempsey gets sent off. He didn't though and no red card was issued.
And I'm only quoting the 2nd part because I couldn't believe you of all people would have said that
Yep.
Players get fouled and exaggerate the dive to ensure the ref gives it, but they're still fouled.
But there lies the fact of the matter, the player has the right to go to ground meaning he's taken the decision to go to ground therefore he's dived.
Players going to ground is just part of football and like you said if they dont they probably dont get the free kick they feel they deserve and like I said there are some that are just better at going to ground than others.
I'm not disagreeing with the wording, I'm disagreeing with the principle. I wouldn't call a player a diver because he didn't make every effort to stay on his feet. If officials gave fouls because of the challenge rather than the reaction then we wouldn't have half the problem we do now.
On a slighty different point, where do you draw the line over what is and isn't acceptable in regards to cheating. When a player knows he's knocked the ball out for a throw but appeals for the decision to go his way, he's trying to con the ref in the same way as a player that dives.
On a slighty different point, where do you draw the line over what is and isn't acceptable in regards to cheating. When a player knows he's knocked the ball out for a throw but appeals for the decision to go his way, he's trying to con the ref in the same way as a player that dives.
It's not either or. There are plenty of incidents when a challenge isn't a foul but the player hasn't dived either.
And sending players off for diving is far too risky. Diving should be punished retrospectively though, with any ban doubling each time the player is found to have dived.
Caporegime
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lol at Purdy saying he's never seen Suarez dive, as shown the Kompany one is a good example, not only did he stay standing and moving fine after he stamped on Kompany's ankle, you then see him twist himself around, with nothing to cause it and put the arms up in an exagerated "look, I've been shot in the shoulder just as I stamped on Kompany, this is what is making me spin to the ground with arms in the air" manner.
Why do people not care about Young diving...... because he's at Utd......
Seriously though, he became a horrific diver about 3 seasons ago, maybe 4, I seem to remember a god awful dive maybe in an early Europa league game, or cup game, that got a LOT of coverage. The thing is, he improved, he rarely dives now, no more than the majority of other players.
Here is where your argument is wrong, we say Suarez dives and cheats MORE THAN ANYONE, and the counter argument is, but on October the 28th, 1941, this guy you all like dived.....
So what.
Suarez dives, and cheats and moans, and whinges and pulls stupid faces and does a really really good beaver impression that is irksome, IN EVERY GAME I'VE EVER SEEN.
Is one dive worse than another dive, not really, is diving 100 times worse than diving twice, yes, is diving twice worse than diving once, yes, but to a lesser degree than the previous difference.
Suarez does not stop, ever and THAT is why he's widely hated. RVP isn't a hated diver or cheat(but a bit of a elbow thrower maybe) because he has done it, but its not a general part of his game, he doesn't try to get people sent off every single game.
Same with Rooney, likes a dive now and then, but is far from prolific. Young since his "bad" season hasn't been anywhere near as bad. LIkewise Ronaldo wasn't even a particularly bad diver before he got to Real, his last 18-24 months at Utd he dived a SIGNIFICANT amount less than his early seasons.
Every single player I can think of has gone down easily and dived a few times, a mere handful of players cheat their way through every game I've seen them play in, Suarez IS one of those players.
Baz, seriously, put "Suarez bi" into google and see what is automatically filled in for it
IIRC it was between his world cup handball heroics, and signing for Liverpool.
Why do people not care about Young diving...... because he's at Utd......
Seriously though, he became a horrific diver about 3 seasons ago, maybe 4, I seem to remember a god awful dive maybe in an early Europa league game, or cup game, that got a LOT of coverage. The thing is, he improved, he rarely dives now, no more than the majority of other players.
Here is where your argument is wrong, we say Suarez dives and cheats MORE THAN ANYONE, and the counter argument is, but on October the 28th, 1941, this guy you all like dived.....
So what.
Suarez dives, and cheats and moans, and whinges and pulls stupid faces and does a really really good beaver impression that is irksome, IN EVERY GAME I'VE EVER SEEN.
Is one dive worse than another dive, not really, is diving 100 times worse than diving twice, yes, is diving twice worse than diving once, yes, but to a lesser degree than the previous difference.
Suarez does not stop, ever and THAT is why he's widely hated. RVP isn't a hated diver or cheat(but a bit of a elbow thrower maybe) because he has done it, but its not a general part of his game, he doesn't try to get people sent off every single game.
Same with Rooney, likes a dive now and then, but is far from prolific. Young since his "bad" season hasn't been anywhere near as bad. LIkewise Ronaldo wasn't even a particularly bad diver before he got to Real, his last 18-24 months at Utd he dived a SIGNIFICANT amount less than his early seasons.
Every single player I can think of has gone down easily and dived a few times, a mere handful of players cheat their way through every game I've seen them play in, Suarez IS one of those players.
Baz, seriously, put "Suarez bi" into google and see what is automatically filled in for it
IIRC it was between his world cup handball heroics, and signing for Liverpool.
That's impossible though and that's why players do go to ground, you cant expect a ref in real time to see a player kicked from behind if he stays on his feet. Maybe the linesman could help but constant stoppages for a linesman's waving flag would hardly help the flow of a game.
It all comes down to whether you have a problem with players going to ground, I dont. It's just as much part of football as scoring a goal.
Maybe I was being a little broad with my initial post that every player who decides to hit the deck is diving I guess that's where the difference (if there is one) would be between going to ground and diving. For me though minimal contact or not Charlie Adam dived against us, Suarez dives in that gif and to show impartiality Jones dived at the weekend and Rooney dived against Arsenal
In terms of cheating who knows it's a murky subject that's not black and white. I'd class what Busquets did against Inter as cheating but had it not been for the fact that the camera's caught him looking through his hands at what the ref was going to do would it of got anymore coverage than when any other player exaggerates injury? and on that subject in some cases who are we to judge if a player is feigning injury or not? Diving after no contact is surely cheating but I'd guess 80% of the time players go to ground because they expect there to be contact and just look like idiots when replays show there was none.
I dont think appealing for a decision is cheating though, players will appeal for everything it's just become second nature.
Caporegime
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Meh, technically maybe, but to be honest with those teeth, he may have aimed at his neck but he got part of his ear, and shoulder, rib, hip, leg and foot as well
This, followed by..
Meh, technically maybe, but to be honest with those teeth, he may have aimed at his neck but he got part of his ear, and shoulder, rib, hip, leg and foot as well
..this. Many laughs
without any contact at all, please show me one he has gone over with no contact at liverpool.
Maybe and maybe players should be encouraged to stay on their feet with the promise that retrospective punishment for their offenders will be taken but that effectively we need not only the FA to have a panel that watches every single game but at least 11 cameras set aside for every game following every player on the pitch to make sure they pick up every single incident.
Not going to happen is it?
Also how do you separate those that dive looking for contact and get fortunate and those that dive and end up receiving none?
There's pretty much nothing that can be done about it.
Baz, seriously, put "Suarez bi" into google and see what is automatically filled in for it
Well it was hardly going to automatically fill with 'Suarez bi-sexual'.