Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [31st October - 5th November 2014]

Im worried and im worried for you guys too. All this every cloud has a silver lining thinking is going to end up in tears come the end of the season.

Our only wins have come at home vs Qpr, Wham and Everton. When do people come forward and admit this is really unacceptable? We all lolled when Moyes got the flybys over OT last season but despite having spent more than 4 times the money we're actually doing worse now than then. Plus lsst season we made it out of the group stages of the cl...
 
It's genuinely amazing that you (and others) compare with Moyes.

You'll say "we've spent £150m and are worse off", ignoring several key things:

  • Moyes took over the side that had cruised to the title just a few short months before
  • That side had a lot more experience and were used to playing together, especially in defence
  • Moyes team started off okay and was progressively getting worse
  • Moyes clearly didn't know what he wanted to do, from the things he said

Now, our current situation is different:

  • LvG has brought in half of a new team. These players are in a new country, a new league, a new club, it can take time to settle
  • We've barely been able to field a consistent team, the inexperienced defence changes every game, this makes a big difference, like it or not
  • Anyone with a pair of eyes can see the team are showing fight and some passion, unlike last season, where we just slumped through most games
  • Our current players all had their confidence crushed by Moyes, like it or not, and he also ripped out the backroom staff, most of which have now been replaced/are new

Yes, we should have prioritised buying other players, but obviously something went wrong with our targets, as it's not like we can't afford them. And yes, we should still be doing better than we are and I'm not absolving LvG of blame for some things, but overall there are signs to be positive.

We'll have to deliver a high points tally from the games leading up to Christmas now, we need to win the majority of them and shouldn't lose any of them.

What we need now is to keep with LvG who can, in the next transfer window, sign more of the players he wants and replace the players you keep moaning about. He knows the standard of player we need. We're only two or three players away from being able to challenge for the league again (once the current new players have a season under their belt).

The fact you think you're more clued up than everyone just because you consistently moan about every single one of our players, then pop up for a session of self-vindication whenever we don't win, is just ridiculous really, and rather tiresome.
 
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Robbo said:
It's genuinely amazing that you (and others) compare with Moyes.

You'll say "we've spent £150m and are worse off", ignoring several key things:

  • Moyes took over the side that had cruised to the title just a few short months before
  • That side had a lot more experience and were used to playing together, especially in defence
  • Moyes team started off okay and was progressively getting worse
  • Moyes clearly didn't know what he wanted to do, from the things he said

Now, our current situation is different:

  • LvG has brought in half of a new team. These players are in a new country, a new league, a new club, it can take time to settle
  • We've barely been able to field a consistent team, the inexperienced defence changes every game, this makes a big difference, like it or not
  • Anyone with a pair of eyes can see the team are showing fight and some passion, unlike last season, where we just slumped through most games
  • Our current players all had their confidence crushed by Moyes, like it or not, and he also ripped out the backroom staff, most of which have now been replaced/are new

Yes, we should have prioritised buying other players, but obviously something went wrong with our targets, as it's not like we can't afford them. And yes, we should still be doing better than we are and I'm not absolving LvG of blame for some things, but overall there are signs to be positive.

We'll have to deliver a high points tally from the games leading up to Christmas now, we need to win the majority of them and shouldn't lose any of them.

What we need now is to keep with LvG who can, in the next transfer window, sign more of the players he wants and replace the players you keep moaning about. He knows the standard of player we need. We're only two or three players away from being able to challenge for the league again (once the current new players have a season under their belt).

The fact you think you're more clued up than everyone just because you consistently moan about every single one of our players, then pop up for a session of self-vindication whenever we don't win, is just ridiculous really, and rather tiresome.
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So LvG is getting a pass because he signed a lot of players?

Spurs did the same thing...look at where we are.

Both teams look like they made signings that were fit for purpose, but it doesnt always work out that way.
 
Snax said:
So LvG is getting a pass because he signed a lot of players?

Spurs did the same thing...look at where we are.

Both teams look like they made signings that were fit for purpose, but it doesnt always work out that way.
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No, for me at least it's mainly because of injuries. We haven't been able to field the same defence for two games yet, which is shocking. I don't know if that's LvGs fault or not, but it needs sorting.

He also didn't have as much time to prepare for the transfer window with the World Cup and everything, on top of all my other points. The players we have signed have all been improvements on the players they replaced, even after a few games. Falcao hasn't really got going yet but hopefully he'll be fit now.

It's too simplistic to try and put it down to one reason.

I see plenty of positives watching us play and we're looking more like a team with every game. With an injury plagued team and makeshift defence we could have beaten Chelsea and gave Man City a tough game with ten men. We could have a great team with no flaws (like Chelsea) and still lose to City, so it's hardly a massive problem by itself.

Now I think the points need delivering.
 
Snax said:
So LvG is getting a pass because he signed a lot of players?
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It's more that he had lost key players that Moyes still had to work with (Vidic/Evra/Ferdinand). I don't believe Moyes could have signed the likes of Di-Maria either.

All Moyes had to do was keep the train on the tracks in his first season, LvG has had to repair the damage from him failing to do so.
 
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mmj_uk said:
It's more that he had lost key players that Moyes still had to work with (Vidic/Evra/Ferdinand). I don't believe Moyes could have signed the likes of Di-Maria either.

All Moyes had to do was keep the train on the tracks in his first season, LvG has had to repair the damage from him failing to do so.
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It was clear Moyes had no money made available to him and like you said he was expected to finish at a respectable league position with the squad he had, however, all Man U fans knew the squad he had was awful, the likes of Cleverley, Valencia, Young, Nani, Welbeck, Ferdinand had to start in his team. I think Ferguson's biggest achievement was winning the league with them players (or was it everyone else was just rubbish?!)

If Moyes had the players at his disposal that LVG has I think he would be doing a much better job given his PL experience. You haven't beaten Sunderland, Leicester and lost to Swansea at home. I find that criminal, new players or not.

This "Progress" thing screams delusion, looking at how you're playing, it's still all crosses and set pieces. I don't buy this new player malarkey, you've brought in top players, you should be doing a lot better. I think you will come top 4 but you cannot deny LVG is not doing very well at the moment.

Also, doesn't Blind play in defence? Or he did for Holland? Stick him in there.

Try and not to get up in my arms with a Leeds fan casting an opinion.
 
What we need now is to keep with LvG who can, in the next transfer window, sign more of the players he wants and replace the players you keep moaning about. He knows the standard of player we need. We're only two or three players away from being able to challenge for the league again (once the current new players have a season under their belt).

The fact you think you're more clued up than everyone just because you consistently moan about every single one of our players, then pop up for a session of self-vindication whenever we don't win, is just ridiculous really, and rather tiresome.
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Robbo

Guys like you and loki make me laugh, even when you're so far wrong you have to make up the extenuating circumstances to avoid admitting it. I never see you pop up and say by god TRM you were right we're doing horribly. ..

Look at the quote i posted from him in the transfer thread where he says we don't need a rb. But now we do. But we didn't when i said we did months ago. Least he could have sais was, 'look i didn't realise rafael only plays half the matches every season, we do need an established Rb'. Instead he goes off on one talking about formations lol.

Have you ever heard of captain hindsight?
 
Maybe it's because at the time, a RB wasn't the most pressing matter in the squad, and midfield is where you really needed improvement. Rafael is decent. Which is more than can be said for any midfielder you had last season.
 
Ah well, I tried Nick. I won't bother in future. :)

Andybtsn said:
It was clear Moyes had no money made available to him and like you said he was expected to finish at a respectable league position with the squad he had, however, all Man U fans knew the squad he had was awful, the likes of Cleverley, Valencia, Young, Nani, Welbeck, Ferdinand had to start in his team. I think Ferguson's biggest achievement was winning the league with them players (or was it everyone else was just rubbish?!)

If Moyes had the players at his disposal that LVG has I think he would be doing a much better job given his PL experience. You haven't beaten Sunderland, Leicester and lost to Swansea at home. I find that criminal, new players or not.

This "Progress" thing screams delusion, looking at how you're playing, it's still all crosses and set pieces. I don't buy this new player malarkey, you've brought in top players, you should be doing a lot better. I think you will come top 4 but you cannot deny LVG is not doing very well at the moment.

Also, doesn't Blind play in defence? Or he did for Holland? Stick him in there.

Try and not to get up in my arms with a Leeds fan casting an opinion.
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We should be doing better, yes, I agree.

I don't think we're playing particularly well, or that our attack is 'purring' at all. But I do see progress in the mentality of the team. Under Moyes they had no fight, nothing, it was really awful. We've got that back and now just need to sort out the tactics and injuries. The injuries really are terrible. Pretty much our entire defence is out at the moment. :o

If we can get the defence to even an average level then our midfield and attack can and will improve drastically, at the moment the entire side is being held back by the defence being a mess.
 
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The Running Man said:
Have you ever heard of captain hindsight?
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Hiyaaa!
 
We've just been beaten 1 - 0 by a City side that has a very settled squad with a manager they know and we had 10 men for half the game and a very very makeshift back line. Last season we got schooled by City in both games and Moyes was gushing about how we should try and be more like City.

No progress at all this season. Jesus christ, we should be doing better than we are but its a work in progress and we have a god awful set of central defenders at the moment. At the end of the season you might have a point if we are playing rubbish football and finish outside the top 6 but till then.... give it a rest eh.
 
Read these threads quite a lot, but don't post all that often.

Going to try and offer an unbiased opinion of Utds performance yesterday coming from a City fan.

I thought Utd played a lot better than they have done in recent derby matches. For my sins I've ended up watching a few Utd games this season and it is clear the cohesion is growing week by week. Yes you've spent a hell of a lot of money, but it's a new look side with a different philosophy, it is going to take time. Have a little faith. I have a lot more concern that an established and mature squad like City's is struggling week on week.

Smalling was a complete tool for both bookings, should be embarrassed and I hope he apologised to the whole dressing room after the game.

De Gea is quickly becoming one of the best keepers in world football. I'd even go as far to saying I would prefer him over Hart (I rant each and every week about how poor and slow Hart's distribution is).

Rooney worked his socks off in midfield, playing a lot deeper than he is used to. That run was sublime, albeit with some shocking defending and faltering end product. What I will say though is that I thought he tried to be too flamboyant with some of his passing when there were sensible, high percentage, passes available.

RVP (much like Yaya) is a shadow of the player he has been. Both of which I'm completely baffled as to why their performances have dropped off a cliff. Kompany absolutely bossed him for the most part.

I don't think it will be too long, injuries permitting, before Utd are performing consistently and getting back towards title challenging form. I think 4th, maybe 3rd, is the best you could hope for this season though now.

--

Now for City.

We are too prescribed and predictable going forward and lack invention. It makes it very easy for defences to set up against us. Stoke, Roma, a large portion of the West Ham game and to a certain extent yesterday are all good examples of this.

We have supposedly the fastest player in Europe with Navas and yet we/he doesn't try to exploit his pace. He rarely tries going past a player and is a one trick pony fainting a cross, nudging the ball and then actually crossing.

I've already said about how laboured Hart is to get the ball out of hand and the accuracy of his kicking is fascicle.

Milner has been fantastic in his work ethic, tackling and doing the simple things well. He just lacks a little end product.

It frustrates me that we are yet to see any of the young blood coming through from the academy and getting at least a little game time. Pozo, Fofana, Bytyqi, Barker and others are all performing very well at under 21 level.
 
You missed Silva yesterday, he was the missing creativity link.

Navas is good but possibly pointless in the City team, you have a policy to rarely ever cross it (maybe you do if Dzeko is playing) as technically you are brilliant with the ball to feet and no one is really big enough head it.

Nasri, Toure, Fernandinho all look lost this season.

Aguero, Zabaleta, Fernando and Kompany have been great.
 
Snax said:
So LvG is getting a pass because he signed a lot of players?

Spurs did the same thing...look at where we are.

Both teams look like they made signings that were fit for purpose, but it doesnt always work out that way.
Click to expand...

Yeah but Spurs is a team full of mid rate players who fancy themselves as world class A-grade players. The new UTD lot are a decent bunch of player who fancy themselves as a decent bunch of players (bar the odd world class like Di Maria). There's a difference :)

E: In fact Spurs, absurdly, went and bought 8 players of mediocrity rather than 4 players of awesomeness.
 
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Andybtsn said:
It was clear Moyes had no money made available to him and like you said he was expected to finish at a respectable league position with the squad he had, however, all Man U fans knew the squad he had was awful, the likes of Cleverley, Valencia, Young, Nani, Welbeck, Ferdinand had to start in his team. I think Ferguson's biggest achievement was winning the league with them players (or was it everyone else was just rubbish?!)
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The reason I don't buy the **** players argument is that United's away record was as good as anyones last season, it was the poor home form where they were unable to break dogged teams down that cost them. I would blame that on tactics, for example when they played Fulham and just launched balls into the box from every angle hoping for the best, any Sunday league side can do that.
 
The Running Man
This message is hidden because The Running Man is on your ignore list.



Is the simple yet effective way of dealing with NickG.

My Doctor has informed me my blood pressure is now at a normal level and I don't get banned nowadays.

I think everyone should follow suit and then it's only fans of other teams that have to read his nonsense.
 
Andybtsn said:
You missed Silva yesterday, he was the missing creativity link.

Navas is good but possibly pointless in the City team, you have a policy to rarely ever cross it (maybe you do if Dzeko is playing) as technically you are brilliant with the ball to feet and no one is really big enough head it.

Nasri, Toure, Fernandinho all look lost this season.

Aguero, Zabaleta, Fernando and Kompany have been great.
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Silva would have thrived in yesterdays game once Utd went down to ten, maybe beforehand too.

The problem with rarely crossing/using the wings effectively is that we can become very narrow, again making it easy to defend against.

Not convinced by Fernando or Mangala yet. Both of whom seem to lack composure. Fernando has been caught in possession too often and made some suspect suicide passes. Mangala seems to just panic in possession and tries too many lumps up field.
 
G|mp said:
The Running Man
This message is hidden because The Running Man is on your ignore list.



Is the simple yet effective way of dealing with NickG.

My Doctor has informed me my blood pressure is now at a normal level and I don't get banned nowadays.

I think everyone should follow suit and then it's only fans of other teams that have to read his nonsense.
Click to expand...

Keep trying to convince people of this, some just like smashing their head against a wall I guess.
 
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