Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [6th - 7th October 2012]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Just got around to seeing Cleverley's strike as well

cleverleystrike.gif
 
BaZ87 said:
Unless you have the same 3 men sticking to very strict guidelines judging every incident, you're going to end up with a lot of complaints.

And are you going to just pick out the incidents highlighted on tv and/or in the penalty area or are you going to look at every time a CB is trying to let the ball run out of play but then tumbles to the ground when an attacker goes to close him down too?

edit: And will we ban defenders for accusing strikers of diving when they have fouled them? It's effectively the same thing - trying to deceive the ref into giving a decision in your favour.
Click to expand...

Like a lot of things in football it needs to be self policed by the players themselves. Here is a scenario, Score is 1-1 ten minutes to go, Player X goes down looking for a penalty. It's a blatant dive. The easiest way to stamp it out is to award a pen but for the opposing team i.e none cheating team. They go on to lose 2-1 after being awarded a penalty kick. You can bet your house that whoever player x is won't go down again after taking some crap off his own team mates for costing them the game.
 
Loki said:
Like a lot of things in football it needs to be self policed by the players themselves. Here is a scenario, Score is 1-1 ten minutes to go, Player X goes down looking for a penalty. It's a blatant dive. The easiest way to stamp it out is to award a pen but for the opposing team i.e none cheating team. They go on to lose 2-1 after being awarded a penalty kick. You can bet your house that whoever player x is won't go down again after taking some crap off his own team mates for costing them the game.
Click to expand...

I'm all for punishing cheating but you still haven't solved the issue of determining what is and isn't a dive.

I'm not sure I like the idea of a ref giving a pen to the opposition too - that's far too risky. Imagine if he's wrong, not only have a team been denied a legit pen themselves but the opposition has been given a pen to make things worse.

As I said before, diving/cheating has become such an art that I'm not sure it can be dealt with. You can ban the obvious ones but that's a small minority of the incidents and won't stop people from looking to cheat. They'll just get better at it.

The other issue I have which I've mentioned before is that we seem to tolerate a lot of other types of cheating but as soon as a striker goes down looking for a penalty, he's the scum of the earth.
 
On the diving thing - didn't Eduardo get a red card rescinded by the FA because Arsenal 'proved' contact after the match?

Does that mean *any* contact is a foul and then 'going to ground' (or diving to the opposition) is ok? :eek:

Premier league players go to ground easily at the faintest of touches, should this be brought into line too?
 
Finally back from the Southampton game, what IDIOT thought that rubbish was worth sticking on tv. Hate sunday games, kills football and kills the weekend.

At least we didn't loose to one of the dullest teams in the league, I can see why every Fulham fan blew their load over signing Petric and Berbatov as they are a proper hoof side without them, Ruiz is miles better than the rest of the squad and Schwarzer at 40 is still quality.

Just feel a little sour about that as it was 2 points badly dropped, even if we were missing Gaston and Clyne, just played the wrong subs again (no idea my Rodriguez is being given so much time to show he isn't ready yet)
 
BaZ87 said:
I'm all for punishing cheating but you still haven't solved the issue of determining what is and isn't a dive.

I'm not sure I like the idea of a ref giving a pen to the opposition too - that's far too risky. Imagine if he's wrong, not only have a team been denied a legit pen themselves but the opposition has been given a pen to make things worse.

As I said before, diving/cheating has become such an art that I'm not sure it can be dealt with. You can ban the obvious ones but that's a small minority of the incidents and won't stop people from looking to cheat. They'll just get better at it.

The other issue I have which I've mentioned before is that we seem to tolerate a lot of other types of cheating but as soon as a striker goes down looking for a penalty, he's the scum of the earth.
Click to expand...

Agree with a lot of what you say. The rules of football are hopefully very clear although every arm chair fan is always quick to raise the point of 'soft penalty' or 'harsh sending off' No such thing exists. What cheating, diving and simulation does is takes the rules and creates that black and white rule grey.

I guess for a lot of fans, diving in and around the box has the biggest pay off for cheats by way of a free kick or penalty. It's pre-meditated and it results in instant success.

Why FIFA,UEFA or The FA got rid of the ten yard rule for dissent is beyond me. Why not reintroduce it for a dive outside the box ???award the free kick 10 yards back to the opposing team
 
Dabbles said:
On the diving thing - didn't Eduardo get a red card rescinded by the FA because Arsenal 'proved' contact after the match?

Does that mean *any* contact is a foul and then 'going to ground' (or diving to the opposition) is ok? :eek:

Premier league players go to ground easily at the faintest of touches, should this be brought into line too?
Click to expand...
I don't think Eduardo was red carded - he was given a ban retrospectively by UEFA (assuming we're talking about the Celtic incident).

As for your 2nd point. Until refs start giving fouls for the actual foul rather than the reaction of players then how can you blame a player for going to ground? Dermot Gallagher said himself (iirc he was commenting on Suarez going to ground dramatically when fouled by Evans the other week) that refs tend not to award fouls if the attacker stays on his feet.
 
Loki said:
Agree with a lot of what you say. The rules of football are hopefully very clear although every arm chair fan is always quick to raise the point of 'soft penalty' or 'harsh sending off' No such thing exists. What cheating, diving and simulation does is takes the rules and creates that black and white rule grey.

I guess for a lot of fans, diving in and around the box has the biggest pay off for cheats by way of a free kick or penalty. It's pre-meditated and it results in instant success.

Why FIFA,UEFA or The FA got rid of the ten yard rule for dissent is beyond me. Why not reintroduce it for a dive outside the box ???award the free kick 10 yards back to the opposing team
Click to expand...

We're still coming back to the same thing though Loki - determining whether a player was fouled, whether he intentionally dragged his leg to make contact, whether he slipped or out and out dived.

The situation is so subjective that it's incredibly difficult to do anything about it retrospectively and I'm not sure anymore can be done than what's already being done during the game (i.e. yellow cards) - any greater punishment would be far too risky. And when a defender dives on his own goal-line, moving the ball 10 yards upfield isn't going to make any difference.

At best you can ban the obvious ones in the hope it deters others but I don't think it will, they'll just continue to get better at it.
 
BaZ87 said:
I don't think Eduardo was red carded - he was given a ban retrospectively by UEFA (assuming we're talking about the Celtic incident).
Click to expand...

That's right, he was banned and then had the ban retracted because there was 'contact'. Ridiculous - either there was sufficient contact to go down like he was shot (there wasn't), or there was sufficient contact that it had to be proven by reviewing reams of video footage, which isn't really a foul is it?!

BaZ87 said:
As for your 2nd point. Until refs start giving fouls for the actual foul rather than the reaction of players then how can you blame a player for going to ground? Dermot Gallagher said himself (iirc he was commenting on Suarez going to ground dramatically when fouled by Evans the other week) that refs tend not to award fouls if the attacker stays on his feet.
Click to expand...

No, no, I agree - referees need to start giving fouls for stuff that is a foul regardless of if they throw themselves to the floor.
 
Just seen Newcastle's back 4 and Keeper options :eek:

Feel sorry for Newcastle that they are the options. Harper can't save a word document...
 
Both Suarez and Bale deserved a booking, nothing more. The problem with retrospective action is if a penalty is awarded and a goal is scored it can't be rescinded.

I'm getting a bit frustraighted with Suarez. Good players stay on their feet. His reputation is also damaging to the team.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom