Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [6th - 8th November 2015]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34762806

Klopp has a dig at the home support.

I have not thought it will make that much difference hiring one of the best managers in the world without some of the best finances. Until that happens he might bring along a good player or two and they will get taken away. Until there is some form of budget that teams can spend on players and wages very little will change unless you get a billionaire. You may get the odd season you break into the top 4 but nothing like the consistency required to compete with the best. My disillusion with the game was long ago. I could tolerate it when the league standard of football was great but it's woeful again this year.
 
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"If there aren't many players that would get in Arsenal's team and Arsenal can't win anything meaningful, why would Liverpool if their players are worse which most are."

because they already have with worse they *NOT*were better then you in 2005 winning something arsenal never have with worse, even klopp says they dont need major surgery.

Arsenals problem is its style and lack of steel, not its talent.
 
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MacMiniBoy said:
"If there aren't many players that would get in Arsenal's team and Arsenal can't win anything meaningful, why would Liverpool if their players are worse which most are."

because they already have with worse they were better then you in 2005 winning something arsenal never have with worse, even klopp says they dont need major surgery.

Arsenals problem is its style and lack of steel, not its talent.
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Perhaps re-read his posts and substitute Arsenal with the words 'top team'. You're answering what he is saying with rivalry and daft stuff like 'we're better than you cos we did well a decade ago, ner ner' when it's completely irrelevant.
 
NexusK said:
Perhaps re-read his posts and substitute Arsenal with the words 'top team'. You're answering what he is saying with rivalry and daft stuff like 'we're better than you cos we did well a decade ago, ner ner' when it's completely irrelevant.
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no im not, im saying its not just about having top players, you can have solid players just aslong as they play like a team

and i suggest you reread my posts, because the drivel you posted is not the point i made.
 
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Although Arsenal were not the best team for the most of that game I'm still a little gutted we only drew considering the chances we had. Giroud just isn't clinical enough, always missed a sitter. Amazed to see a half time sub from Wenger, has he ever done that before? All 3 subs worked out really well actually. All these injuries are really hampering the team though, hopefully we'll get a few back before the next prem game.

Gotta say that Ozil is really looking the part recently, his passing is exceptional and deserved more than just 1 assist today.
 
NexusK said:
Perhaps re-read his posts and substitute Arsenal with the words 'top team'. You're answering what he is saying with rivalry and daft stuff like 'we're better than you cos we did well a decade ago, ner ner' when it's completely irrelevant.
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MacMiniBoy said:
no im not, im saying its not just about having top players, you can have solid players just aslong as they play like a team

and i suggest you reread my posts, because the drivel you posted is not the point i made.
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No his point is spot on and why your posts are reading as completely irrelevant.

04/05 is nothing like 15/16 and beyond. Look up the finances of Barca/Real in 04/05, they weren't 'strong' teams, they weren't stronger than most of europe and weren't that far beyond several other teams in La Liga. It's been since 05/06 really that both La Liga has been utterly dominated and those two have gone from 100mil revenue clubs to 500mil revenue clubs while the only a few of the rest of the league have grown into 100mil revenue clubs.

The champions league now has lets say 4 genuine long term superpowers, Real, Barca, Utd and Bayern, of whom you can expect one to be in the final pretty much every year, 2 or 3 to make it to the semi finals every year.

04/05 had no genuine super power teams and Liverpool's finances at the time were pretty much on par with Arsenal. Today winning the champs league is a different prospect, back then a meant a lucky draw could see a favourable route to the final. Chelsea took out what Barca and Bayern was it for you, you narrowly beat Chelsea and Milan fluffed the final completely. Even then Carragher/Hypiaa were more consistent defenders than what you have now, Finnan and Risse at the time were consistent and very good fullbacks beyond what you have now. gerrard in his prime is beyond anyone you have in midfield now. Garcia for me was a real talent, a big game player. The only place I'd say you're better now is upfront, but worse everywhere else. I'd take 04/05 Dudek over Migs easily.

The 04/05 squad would absolutely not have the quality to win today's champs league, Bayern/Barca/Real would crush the living hell out of them and today's Liverpool isn't as good. 04/05 was a relatively solid team but still had several stand out players in it in key positions. It was a team with a huge amount of luck, some genuine quality players who also played like a team in a competition that isn't remotely the same prospect today.

What 04/05 liverpool did has literally nothing at all to do with what 15/16 Liverpool can achieve, nothing at all.
 
drunkenmaster said:
No his point is spot on and why your posts are reading as completely irrelevant.

04/05 is nothing like 15/16 and beyond. Look up the finances of Barca/Real in 04/05, they weren't 'strong' teams, they weren't stronger than most of europe and weren't that far beyond several other teams in La Liga. It's been since 05/06 really that both La Liga has been utterly dominated and those two have gone from 100mil revenue clubs to 500mil revenue clubs while the only a few of the rest of the league have grown into 100mil revenue clubs.

The champions league now has lets say 4 genuine long term superpowers, Real, Barca, Utd and Bayern, of whom you can expect one to be in the final pretty much every year, 2 or 3 to make it to the semi finals every year.

04/05 had no genuine super power teams and Liverpool's finances at the time were pretty much on par with Arsenal. Today winning the champs league is a different prospect, back then a meant a lucky draw could see a favourable route to the final. Chelsea took out what Barca and Bayern was it for you, you narrowly beat Chelsea and Milan fluffed the final completely. Even then Carragher/Hypiaa were more consistent defenders than what you have now, Finnan and Risse at the time were consistent and very good fullbacks beyond what you have now. gerrard in his prime is beyond anyone you have in midfield now. Garcia for me was a real talent, a big game player. The only place I'd say you're better now is upfront, but worse everywhere else. I'd take 04/05 Dudek over Migs easily.

The 04/05 squad would absolutely not have the quality to win today's champs league, Bayern/Barca/Real would crush the living hell out of them and today's Liverpool isn't as good. 04/05 was a relatively solid team but still had several stand out players in it in key positions. It was a team with a huge amount of luck, some genuine quality players who also played like a team in a competition that isn't remotely the same prospect today.

What 04/05 liverpool did has literally nothing at all to do with what 15/16 Liverpool can achieve, nothing at all.
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well said again
 
I still find it kind of funny that Liverpool fans still think their club is a top team.
They haven't been for many years, and even today they are well outside of the top 4.
They may have a fluke here and there, but over time they have dropped a long way.

Klopp might turn out to be the saviour, but he certainly has his work cut out for him, mainly due to the expectations of the fans.....I mean he's already moaning about them at home!
 
Klopp did brilliantly not just within the budget Dortmund had, just absolutely brilliant for them.

he both instilled a style that was fantastic to watch but helped them beat many top teams. He coached well, got the absolute best quality out of the players he bought. He improved almost every player he bought and he had phenomenal success in the transfer market, honestly beyond what any other manager has achieved since again Arsenal in the old days of Wenger.

I've always maintained two things in football, you need enough money to be in the ballpark of winning, you don't have to have the most and you there will always be amazing players available on the cheap just ready to break through both of which add up to the ability for teams without the most money to win things. The difference between liverpool and City money is being able to compete EVERY year, not being able to compete at all. If Liverpool have Sturridge out they can't afford to buy a 30mil in form striker(well they can, just not every year and not multiple players of that price every year) to keep the team competitive the next year, City can. Either team can afford to buy Aguero the year before he comes good, City just don't need to look for the next 30mil + striker, they can buy the already 30mil + striker. This is where Klopp has been unbelievable in the past what 7 years or whatever. Almost every buy being a player who with a bit of coaching and game time is ready to become the next 30mil player.

When you're buying the players who are about to become good you get up and down performance. A year where you buy Lewandowski and he takes time to become good, then the year he is great. Again this is about consistency, monumental budgets buy you consistency, a good enough budget buys you the ability with great management to be in there now and again.

This is all I think Liverpool can achieve with Klopp, an ability to dip into the top four every couple of years on average maybe.

Yes Rodgers could be said to have achieved that, but he did that with Sturridge, a player he didn't pick out, and Suarez a player who was already there. HIs other buying has been poor and there was no signs he could get back into the CL frankly ever again let alone on a once every 2-3 years basis.
 
When people say Liverpool aren't a top team, it's how you define a top team, think of how many players and clubs there in the world. Liverpool are a top team in that regard. They aren't if you only include 2 or 3 sides from say the biggest footballing nations, England, Germany, Spain, France and Italy. It's very subjective. A kid just starting out football in the hills of Chile would say Liverpool are a massive club for example..
 
History wise, certainly, one of the biggest English clubs.
I meant more in general over the past 5-10 yrs or so.
I'd put Liverpool in line with Spurs. That 5-8th spot.
 
NexusK said:
Perhaps re-read his posts and substitute Arsenal with the words 'top team'. You're answering what he is saying with rivalry and daft stuff like 'we're better than you cos we did well a decade ago, ner ner' when it's completely irrelevant.
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What do you expect, look who posted it, I expect he can't wait to for what he perceives as a personal attack so he can report post to moderator and hide like a child.
 
Clipsey said:
I still find it kind of funny that Liverpool fans still think their club is a top team.
They haven't been for many years, and even today they are well outside of the top 4.
They may have a fluke here and there, but over time they have dropped a long way.
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So arsenal aren't a big club either? Depends when you want to draw your line in the sand. Let's say from 04/05 season Liverpool have gotten closer to the title more often. Finished 2nd twice to Arsenals once. Arsenal have more 3rd's and fourths (the mark of a big club?).

Champions league. Liverpool have won it, come runner up and a semi final and QF. Arsenal were runners up once, one semi final and a two QF's. Loads of R16 failures, the true mark of greatness. So for all the extra appearances they have done worse in Europe and got no closer in the league, yet Liverpool is the small club?

As I said it all depends on where you want to start collecting stats.
 
I think the landscape has changed a lot in the last 5-10yrs.
Big clubs are now huge clubs!
I'd say Arsenal are definitely more consistent and a bigger club than Liverpool, yes.
Points, revenue, players etc
Over the past 10 years, Arsenal have accumulated the 2nd most amount of points (behind Man Utd) = winning more games than any other team (besides Man Utd)
Arsenal are ranked in the top 10 teams in Uefa and have been the past 10 years. Liverpool are way off.
Players = Besides Suarez can't think of many top players coming way of Liverpool. Sturridge, shame on injuries.
Revenue = Arsenal have been outperforming most of the clubs past 5-10 yrs.

My best mate is a Liverpool fan, and he's coming to the realization that they are no longer a big club, although we still argue about it :p
I am definitely not saying Arsenal are a giant club, those belong to Bayern, Real, Barca etc
 
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