You're right, it's not a natural position if he's just running. It's 100% natural to put your hands up like that to protect yourself when somebody steps into you though. It's instinctive and we'd have all been in a situation when somebody has walked in front of us out of the blue and we'd have all done the same thing.Do you run with your hands up facing outwards and towards someones back? That's some weird running technique right there......That's not a natural position for his hands to be in whichever way you want to spin it, he's put his hands up to push him.
Edit: Firmino finds it pretty funny anyway
Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [8th - 13th December 2017]
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Out of the blue, sure.... but it's not out of the blue is it, he must surely realise there's a chance Lewin will try and protect the ball with his body. How can he not be anticipating the situation.
If his instinct when a player steps in front of him is to put his hands on the players back he's going to give a lot of penalties/fouls away. This kind of thing happens all the time, where a player will put his body in the way of the ball and it's up to the player behind not to foul.
I can see both sides of the argument, on one hand that shouldn't be enough contact to send someone down but on the other hand his hands shouldn't be there in the first place so I can see why it was given.
He didn't just put his body between the ball though. He literally moves in the opposite direction of the ball to create the contact. As I said last night, it's exactly the same as when we see Vardy kick a defender and throw himself to the ground.
Whether Lovren could or should have anticipated it, I'm not sure but there is absolutely nothing he could have done to avoid contact. Had he not raised his arm then he'd have ended up running into him and people would have then tried to say he barged him over.
I agree he couldn't have avoided contact but in my opinion if he doesn't put his hands up in that pushing motion it's more of a case of a coming together and less of a chance the ref gives it. There's also less of a chance that Lewis throws himself on the ground, I think he goes down because he feels the hands on the back and thinks sure, why not eat the dirt. Lovren putting his hands up like that makes it considerably easier for the ref to give the decision, in that respect it's naive from him.
Obviously it's all hypothetical but in my mind if he doesn't push him the penalty doesn't get given.
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It's ridiculous .. really is.. The question surely has to be " was there intent"?? Same for the amount of yellow cards being branded out..The penalty for a foul is a free kick... it doesn't always necessitate a yellow card. yellow cards only where there is a deliberate attempt to bring a player down - deliberately.
Well I don't think he's pushed him. He's raised his arms, sure but he's not pushed him.
I've always said that refs contribute to the diving problem we have - until officials start awarding fouls for fouls rather than the (over)reaction of attackers then players will always be inclined to go to ground/overreact. It's incidents like this where I have a lot of sympathy for officials though - diving has become a skill now and we're seeing more and more examples of attackers creating contact with defenders and throwing themselves to the ground.
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Calvert Lewin has the right to put his body wherever he wants to. He knocked the ball past Lovren and was ahead of him in the race to get it.
For a seasoned professional Lovren is incredibly naive. Calvert Lewin is still a novice who would hardly be kicking a ball had Everton managed to replace Lukaku properly but he still had the intelligence to use his body correctly.
Comparing what he did to what I've seen other players do in unnaturally hanging a leg out to initiate contact is a ridiculous statement. Lovren is a dope and Calvert Lewin anticipated that Lovren would clatter into the back of him.
Why couldn't Lovren anticipate that he was going to LOSE the foot race to get to the ball and avoid putting himself in a position where he would commit a foul?
It was poor defending from Lovren. It was nothing like hanging a leg out to draw a foul. Any suggestion otherwise is simply sour grapes.
I'm more inclined to take the word of ex professional footballers such as Michael Owen and Adrian Clarke who agree that it was a STONE WALL penalty.
For a seasoned professional Lovren is incredibly naive. Calvert Lewin is still a novice who would hardly be kicking a ball had Everton managed to replace Lukaku properly but he still had the intelligence to use his body correctly.
Comparing what he did to what I've seen other players do in unnaturally hanging a leg out to initiate contact is a ridiculous statement. Lovren is a dope and Calvert Lewin anticipated that Lovren would clatter into the back of him.
Why couldn't Lovren anticipate that he was going to LOSE the foot race to get to the ball and avoid putting himself in a position where he would commit a foul?
It was poor defending from Lovren. It was nothing like hanging a leg out to draw a foul. Any suggestion otherwise is simply sour grapes.
I'm more inclined to take the word of ex professional footballers such as Michael Owen and Adrian Clarke who agree that it was a STONE WALL penalty.
I think he does push him away, whether it's enough to send him to the deck is another question. Whether he pushes him or not him putting his hands in that position obviously made the ref think he did and that's enough for him to make the decision.
I do agree that the players con the refs all the time and I don't like seeing it, the problem is the way the game is heading it's only going to get worse. Look at the Manchester derby, players throwing themselves all around the place cheating, the ref's don't stand a chance of getting every decision right when the players aren't playing fair.
Well yes, if he wants to barge into Lovren he can but it should result in a free-kick to Liverpool not a penalty. Lewin has form for cheating, he's going to get a reputation soon.
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I think you've watched a different game to me and to Michael Owen and to Adrian Clarke. I'll leave you to your opinions.
Are you suggesting that Lewin doesn't step in the opposite direction of the ball and into Lovren? It's not really an opinion to anybody will fully functioning eyesight.
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He can step where he wants. He's in front of Lovren. He is in control of the situation and has the right to move wherever he likes. It's called shielding the ball.
My eyesight is perfectly fine, as is Michael Owen's and as is Adrian Clarke's who also agree with me.
The only reputation Calvert Lewin is getting is that of making absolute mugs out of senior professional footballers.
If he steps into Lovren and creates contact then he's fouled Lovren. He can do it if he wants but it should have resulted in a foul.
I'm sure, for now, you'll be happy with Lewin's cheating. He got Walker sent off by rolling around holding his head (when Walker didn't touch his head) and he dived and won a penalty. Sooner or later it'll catch up with him though and it'll cost you. Hopefully in the FA Cup.
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But it wasn't a foul. It's not just me suggesting that. Plenty of former professional players are saying it was a penalty.
Klopp lost his marbles in the press conference because he asked all of the sports journalists their opinions and they all thought it was a penalty too.
It isn't me being biased and one sided here. It's time to accept the facts!
Plenty of former professionals are ****ing stupid to be fair. And most of their comments are caveated with 'Lewin was clever'. Cheating is clever if it pays.
Ah the bias comment
It would be great if people could have a difference of opinion without having to resort to that. Plenty of non Liverpool supporters on here have said it wasn't a penalty. IInm, even dannyjo, who's an Evertonian seems to be suggesting that it wasn't a pen.
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The facts seem to be that almost any contact that results in the player throwing themselves to the ground is a penalty.
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I'm not accusing you of bias. I'm saying that I'M not bias. Anyway, I'm going to leave that there and we can come back to it when Calvert Lewin ISN'T charged with deceiving a referee after the second accusation from certain sections of this board; if we we really want to.Plenty of former professionals are ****ing stupid to be fair. And most of their comments are caveated with 'Lewin was clever'. Cheating is clever if it pays.
Ah the bias comment
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Yeah but you're allowed to step across a player to protect the ball. There's countless examples of a player realising they are being closed down and stepping across to shield the ball, and the vast majority of the time you see the player who is coming in to try to take the ball end up committing a foul. Plus that angle doesn't show the left hand in the back that is the main source of contact between Lovren and Calvert-Lewin. There's even a Liverpool fan about three or four replies down who asks Mark Halsey, a very experienced former PL ref, for his view and Halsey says:
"I thought Lovren was very naive, his hands were on the back of DCL when you do that, you are then giving the referee a decision to make I would be criticising Lovren not Craig Pawson imo honestly penalty"
Imo Lovren should be getting abuse for being an idiot, not the ref. Calvert-Lewin was running away from goal, on his weaker foot. There's a good chance he wouldn't have even been able to get a decent shot off, let alone been certain to score.
Since when have you been allowed to step into a player? Lewin doesn't have the ball at his feet and dribble in front of Lovren, he ignores the ball steps in the complete opposite direction of where the ball is travelling.
And Halsey done well not to answer the question - if he thought it was a foul why didn't he say so rather than come out with comments like 'giving the ref a decision to make'?
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