Greta Thunberg

Threepwood · 5 Oct 2019 at 16:15

Tuppy_Glossop said:
I read it as him validating and approving of my position

Sorry, I got you mixed up with stockhausen there, ha! whoopsie!

Threepwood · 5 Oct 2019 at 16:21

deuse said:
But which side?

There are many scientists that disagree with the accuracy of IPCC climate projections.
There are many who support it.

There are scientists arguing that global warming is primarily caused by natural processes. Then there are the ones that don't.

As long as they argue with each other. They will be on the gravey train for life.

So they should get together and sort it out using both sets of data...... If there is a natural cycle, because of our changing position in regards to the sun (which there is plenty of evidence for) what is it going to be like when we enter that period (as some evidence suggests we are doing) if we have loads of a greenhouse gasses already in the atmosphere??? (there is plently of evidence to show they are indeed green house gasses)

One side shows that during our cooling after the warm period there is a spike of co2 but the world continues to cool (because we are moving away from the cooling period and the c02 spike is not that high) So again, what happens when we enter that period with a load of extra greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere? There is no evidence at all whatsoever to show what will happen, because it never has under those circumstances in the 500000 year record we have from the ice tubes!

Burnsy2023 · 5 Oct 2019 at 16:27

deuse said:
But which side?

There are many scientists that disagree with the accuracy of IPCC climate projections.
There are many who support it.

There are scientists arguing that global warming is primarily caused by natural processes. Then there are the ones that don't.

As long as they argue with each other. They will be on the gravey train for life.

This is a falsehood. There are not many scientists who disagree with the IPCC climate projects, there is a very small minority - at most 3%. There is a clear scientific consensus on the data and the models. Whilst neither can be complete, the trends and causal links are clear.

The narrative that there isn't a clear consensus across climate scientists is simply wrong.

Threepwood · 5 Oct 2019 at 16:35

Burnsy2023 said:
The narrative that there isn't a clear consensus across climate scientists is simply wrong.

Again, what troubles me is what if they are all correct? Because that makes the issue even more crazy.

& hells bells, even if it is all a load of balls from both sides... why, as a species, can't we work together and make the world a better place anyway!? Where is our imagination?

dowie · 5 Oct 2019 at 16:47

Threepwood said:
Because you don't seem to get that the kind of people that those people are talking about, they really are a bit like what they are saying they are..... They are not talking about really nice people who have a great humanitarian track record.

Not really, I think you might be unaware of it in that case but there is a current trend to call almost anyone you don't agree with a fascist or a nazi. Take a look at the Jonathan Pie video recommended by @Angilion if you're unaware of this recent cultural phenomenon.

Burnsy2023 · 5 Oct 2019 at 16:49

Threepwood said:
Again, what troubles me is what if they are all correct? Because that makes the issue even more crazy.

& hells bells, even if it is all a load of balls from both sides... why, as a species, can't we work together and make the world a better place anyway!? Where is our imagination?

That is ultimately my end point. If they're right (which is highly likely), then we absolutely need to decarbonise. If they're wrong, then we've had some economic readjustment, but we also have sustainable energy. We know fossil fuels are going to run out eventually anyway.

Gerard · 5 Oct 2019 at 16:55

https://twitter.com/x/status/1180143517395488774

Threepwood · 5 Oct 2019 at 16:57

dowie said:
Not really, I think you might be unaware of it in that case but there is a current trend to call almost anyone you don't agree with a fascist or a nazi. Take a look at the Jonathan Pie video recommended by @Angilion if you're unaware of this recent cultural phenomenon.

I know Dowie, I've been following Pie for a long time now, he is ace, but likes his hits too, you know? I also understand why certain groups are bit like that as well, I can certainly sympahise anyway. Do you agree with most of what Pie has to say btw? Not a loaded question, honest.

Burnsy2023 said:
That is ultimately my end point. If they're right (which is highly likely), then we absolutely need to decarbonise. If they're wrong, then we've had some economic readjustment, but we also have sustainable energy. We know fossil fuels are going to run out eventually anyway.

Well, that is if the current thoughts on fossil fuels are correct... but even if they are not, and it is an abiogenic process that crude oil is made.... well, we got even bigger problems then because there is going to be a lot more of it than we thought! And that means even more emmissions. Gulp.

dowie · 5 Oct 2019 at 17:02

Threepwood said:
I know Dowie, I've been following Pie for a long time now, he is ace, but likes his hits too, you know? I also understand why certain groups are bit like that as well, I can certainly sympahise anyway. Do you agree with most of what Pie has to say btw? Not a loaded question, honest.

If you are aware of that then why are you repeatedly quoting me over this and trying to make out that this trend just applies to bad people? I agree with a lot of what Pie says, I'm also a fan of one of the other creations of one of the co-creators of Pie:

https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath

Threepwood · 5 Oct 2019 at 17:23

dowie said:
If you are aware of that then why are you repeatedly quoting me over this and trying to make out that this trend just applies to bad people?

Because here, on this forum, where you are carrying over the joke; you are aiming at people who are talking about people who simply are a bit like that... they may not be out and proud nazis or fascists, but their track record is bordering on fascist/nazi lite.

Edit: lol

dowie · 5 Oct 2019 at 17:35

Threepwood said:
Because here, on this forum, where you are carrying over the joke; you are aiming at people who are talking about people who simply are a bit like that... they may not be out and proud nazis or fascists, but their track record is bordering on fascist/nazi lite.

No I'm not, I've literally explained that already:

dowie said:
Not really, I think you might be unaware of it in that case but there is a current trend to call almost anyone you don't agree with a fascist or a nazi. Take a look at the Jonathan Pie video recommended by @Angilion if you're unaware of this recent cultural phenomenon.

There are people on here who think the LibDems are too far to the right and/or who think that mainstream politicians are Nazis or Fascists... in fact even mentioning say a US style Supreme Court has people instantly making some silly Nazi comparisons... "don't you know the Nazis politicised courts" etc.. might as well pint out that Hitler was a vegetarian in some thread about not eating meat.

Threepwood · 5 Oct 2019 at 17:50

dowie said:
No I'm not, I've literally explained that already:

Off the top of my head, in the recent benefits thread, when you replied to the guy talking about IDS and the benefits system... both of which are pretty nazi/facist lite, for example. You might not see it, but there are plenty who do, and it's not a joke, sadly.

dowie said:
No I'm not, I've literally explained that already:
There are people on here who think the LibDems are too far to the right and/or who think that mainstream politicians are Nazis or Fascists... in fact even mentioning say a US style Supreme Court has people instantly making some silly Nazi comparisons... "don't you know the Nazis politicised courts" etc.. might as well pint out that Hitler was a vegetarian in some thread about not eating meat.

You cannot escape the fact that there were nazis and fascists (still are ofc but lets not go there) and there will be similarities, and people will point that out. Its inescapeable really. I did it myself when boris prorogued parliment pointing out some similarities to the german Enabling Act of 1933 being similar to the prorogue of parliament...

dowie · 5 Oct 2019 at 18:39

Threepwood said:
Off the top of my head, in the recent benefits thread, when you replied to the guy talking about IDS and the benefits system... both of which are pretty nazi/facist lite, for example. You might not see it, but there are plenty who do, and it's not a joke, sadly.

That has nothing to do with nazism... that is a complete joke.

You cannot escape the fact that there were nazis and fascists (still are ofc but lets not go there) and there will be similarities, and people will point that out. Its inescapeable really. I did it myself when boris prorogued parliment pointing out some similarities to the german Enabling Act of 1933 being similar to the prorogue of parliament...

Then I guess that explains why you're getting worked up over this - you're guilty of throwing around those terms yourself. Trying to justify it by saying that in some cases the people they are directed towards are bad or you disagree with them is missing the point rather comically.

Drumroll · 5 Oct 2019 at 18:48

dowie said:
No I'm not, I've literally explained that already:

There are people on here who think the LibDems are too far to the right and/or who think that mainstream politicians are Nazis or Fascists... in fact even mentioning say a US style Supreme Court has people instantly making some silly Nazi comparisons... "don't you know the Nazis politicised courts" etc.. might as well pint out that Hitler was a vegetarian in some thread about not eating meat.

Not under the same line of thought, but seems to be that if you don't accept/agree with all that someone says online, you'll be tagged straight away as hatter. So the self-righteous Greta, no different than any cult leader says whatever she wants or thinks is right, and unless you agree, you are a hatter. How about other people freedom?

Threepwood · 5 Oct 2019 at 19:00

dowie said:
That has nothing to do with nazism... that is a complete joke.

? I don't follow, can you explain that in a little more detail?

dowie said:
Then I guess that explains why you're getting worked up over this - you're guilty of throwing around those terms yourself. Trying to justify it by saying that in some cases the people they are directed towards are bad or you disagree with them is missing the point rather comically.

I'm having a rather pleasant day tyvm xD You do have a habit of putting stuff into peoples mouths don't you? :rolleyes:

I understand your point, totes, but it seems you are failing to grasp mine. Lets do the same. So. You are saying that nobody ever acts in a fascist or nazi way at all ever, especially those in power. They are all saints who have zero negative effect on the populace. That nobody should ever liken anything to fascism or nazism, because its simply never true in the slightest. Okay.

dowie · 5 Oct 2019 at 19:26

Threepwood said:
? I don't follow, can you explain that in a little more detail?

What in particular do you want explained?

I'm having a rather pleasant day tyvm xD You do have a habit of putting stuff into peoples mouths don't you? I understand your point, totes, but it seems you are failing to grasp mine.

What is your point - you seem to have quoted me multiple times here but you're not really making much sense.

So. You are saying that nobody ever acts in a fascist or nazi way at all ever, especially those in power. They are all saints who have zero negative effect on the populace. That nobody should ever liken anything to fascism or nazism, because its simply never true in the slightest. Okay.

No I made a light hearted comment about the frequent inappropriate use of the terms "nazi" and "fascist". Why is that so hard for you to follow?

Threepwood · 5 Oct 2019 at 19:47

dowie said:
What in particular do you want explained?

Can you expand upon what you said? Are you saying that IDS and the benefts system has nothing in common with nazism/fascis, and anyone saying they share similaritiessaying that they do is a joke? I'm just not quite sure if that is what you mean, hence asking you to clarify.

dowie said:
What is your point - you seem to have quoted me multiple times here but you're not really making much sense.

You suggested I was getting worked up, I said I'm having a pleasant day thanks, ergo not actually worked up? That and you are failing (on purpose I suspect) at understanding what I'm talking about...

dowie said:
No I made a light hearted comment about the frequent inappropriate use of the terms "nazi" and "fascist". Why is that so hard for you to follow?

Yes Dowie, I understand... What I am using my time here with you, is trying to get you to understand that there is a "likeness" to N+F with some things/systems/people, which really are not a joke... go laugh over some of the graves of people who have died as a direct result of some of them, and tell their loved ones that using nazi and fascist as a means to explain the powers/systems that directly contributed to their deaths is wrong. Do you know anyone who has been affected by such? You don't have to wear the swastica and force people into gas chambers to be a bit fascist you know?

dowie · 5 Oct 2019 at 20:01

Threepwood said:
Can you expand upon what you said? Are you saying that IDS and the benefts system has nothing in common with nazism/fascis, and anyone saying they share similaritiessaying that they do is a joke? I'm just not quite sure if that is what you mean, hence asking you to clarify.

Yes, I think it is yet another example of people misusing those terms, I've already pointed this out, if you want to moan about benefits then perhaps do it in the other thread.

You suggested I was getting worked up, I said I'm having a pleasant day thanks, ergo not actually worked up? That and you are failing (on purpose I suspect) at understanding what I'm talking about...

You've quoted me 8 times over a light hearted comment in reference to the fact that certain posters have a trend for throwing terms like nazi and fascist around at anything they disagree with.

Yes Dowie, I understand... What I am using my time here with you, is trying to get you to understand that there is a "likeness" to N+F with some things/systems/people, which really are not a joke... go laugh over some of the graves of people who have died as a direct result of some of them, and tell their loved ones that using nazi and fascist as a means to explain the powers/systems that directly contributed to their deaths is wrong. Do you know anyone who has been affected by such? You don't have to wear the swastica and force people into gas chambers to be a bit fascist you know?

Well you don't understand then do you, you say you do but then post something that yet again completely misses the point.

Threepwood · 5 Oct 2019 at 20:07

@dowie

I understand both sides, there is fun to be had with it; yes some folk use the terms too much out of real context, but some of it is also serious and has relevance. You talk like there is no relevance at all ever? Its like you can only ever see one side or something.

Sorry for quoting you, please keep quoting me, it makes me feel special

And I did, in the benefits thread, but you conveniently left! /shrug.

dowie · 5 Oct 2019 at 20:10

Threepwood said:
I understand both sides, there is fun to be had with it; yes some folk use the terms too much out of real context, but some of it is also serious and has relevance. You talk like there is no relevance at all ever? Its like you can only ever see one side or something.

No I've not said that, I've pointed out what I'm objecting to, why is that so hard for you to follow.

I've highlighted that I'm referring to people using nazi and fascist for anything and everything.

You highlight that there are some people who are fascists out there... erm OK - so what? That isn't what I'm referring to. Yes I'm aware that the likes of the BNP exist etc.. and that people might refer to them as fascists. This isn't too hard to follow, perhaps you're unaware of the postings of the poster I referred to initially - I'm not objecting to anyone referring to far right groups as nazis or fascists.