Grooming gangs

Soldato
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https://news.sky.com/story/grooming-gang-convictions-84-asian-say-researchers-11164589


There has been much discussion of this in the past, with some heated replies refuting this statement. Why is this happening, now we have evidence from an impartial source can anyone she light on this phenomenon?

Is it a cultural or religious factor that is causing this? What can we do to help prevent this from happening in our society, as this behaviour undermines the multicultural society that people are keen to build.
 
It's mostly from a cultural mindset than religious, otherwise we'd find similar issues with Muslims from other backgrounds.
 
I think it is pretty apparent that this is an issue particularly relevant to British Asian-Muslim communities, I don't think that is controversial in itself so long as you're not trying to make generalisations about people from that background.

Likewise there is a problem with gang violence/murder relevant to British African/Caribbean communities thus the Met Police have Operation Trident.

It's mostly from a cultural mindset than religious, otherwise we'd find similar issues with Muslims from other backgrounds.

I think it is a bit of both, aspects of religion do play into it too... the us vs them attitude, the perception that because the girls are kuffar then they're somehow lesser people and using them for sex is permissible.
 
I think it is pretty apparent that this is an issue particularly relevant to British Asian-Muslim communities, I don't think that is controversial in itself so long as you're not trying to make generalisations about people from that background.

Likewise there is a problem with gang violence/murder relevant to British African/Caribbean communities thus the Met Police have Operation Trident.



I think it is a bit of both, aspects of religion do play into it too... the us vs them attitude, the perception that because the girls are kuffar then they're somehow lesser people and using them for sex is permissible.
How and where do you target this education to change this mindset?
 
How and where do you target this education to change this mindset?
You seem to have a lot of questions but few answers, again. What do you think? I'm joking - I know what you think because you are very transparent.

@dowie - I'm getting slightly nervous about the increasing correlation between your posts and me nodding my head. Have I dropped my standards or have you upped yours? :)
 
You seem to have a lot of questions but few answers, again. What do you think? I'm joking - I know what you think because you are very transparent.

@dowie - I'm getting slightly nervous about the increasing correlation between your posts and me nodding my head. Have I dropped my standards or have you upped yours? :)
No I really wavy to know how do you tackle something this, I just want us all to live in peace together. So much division, what's the root cause?
 
No I really wavy to know how do you tackle something this, I just want us all to live in peace together. So much division, what's the root cause?
People. There will never be peace, we will never be rid of division. That’s not to say we shouldn’t try to make things better, but we shouldn’t expect to ever completely succeed.
 
Interestingly this isn't just a problem with older men but they're the ones who can and are prosecuted. A friend of mine works at a school in the area of Newcastle where one of the larger gangs (the one with that horrendous white woman in) was based. As a result the school has a large number of Asian students. Even from young ages the male Asian students are going after the white girls because they are easy targets and because within their community it is acceptable for them to do so. The girls even at that age are plied with mostly alcohol but also drugs. Older male friends of the boys will often provide houses, shops or other locations for them to have sex. The girls are convinced that a or b loves them and is their bf before they're dumped and passed on to some other bloke the next week. In most cases the girls are from pretty crappy backgrounds with little parental supervision which is what makes it so easy for them to be drawn away and The fact that they are seen as subhuman and nothing but a wet hole. The boys have monetary and other support from elder members of their community who know exactly what is going on and probably encourage it.
 
You're spot on dis. We had a guest speaker in on Friday for our pgce (were currently doing safe guarding, sexual exploitation, prevent etc - pretty grim) and she was talking about how young Asian men are being groomed to be groomers by way of blackmail, threat of violence etc. Not all of these young men are "willing groomers". No 16 yr old girl will get into a relationship with a 50 Yr old, so they use the young good looking 21 yr olds as bait.

One solution could be to instill a bit of self respect in our young British girls. Education and tackling poverty in the areas where these gangs operate would help somewhat.
 
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You're spot on dis. We had a guest speaker in on Friday for our pgce (were currently doing safe guarding, sexual exploitation, prevent etc - pretty grim) and she was raking about how young Asian men are being groomed to be groomers. No 16 yr old girl will get into a relationship with a 50 Yr old, so they use the young good looking 21 yr olds as bait.

One solution could be to instill a bit of self respect in our young British girls. Education and tackling poverty in the areas where these gangs operate would help somewhat.

There is nothing new here

There is a chapter in the book "Call the Midwife" that describes pretty much exactly this scenario (Though, as you can imagine, it wasn't adapted for the TV series)

(Incidentally, "Call the Midwife" is like Robinson Crusoe. Everybody knows the story but nobodies read the book. It is definitely one for the reading list, but it is not for the faint hearted. Really it isn't...:eek: )
 
@dowie - I'm getting slightly nervous about the increasing correlation between your posts and me nodding my head. Have I dropped my standards or have you upped yours? :)

haha, maybe a bit of convergence, I don't think I've changed my posting style much, am perhaps a bit less terse at times as I guess what I posted above, if condensed rather than with added clarification about not generalising etc.. could easily have been misinterpreted
 
One solution could be to instill a bit of self respect in our young British girls. Education and tackling poverty in the areas where these gangs operate would help somewhat.

The vast majority of the girls being groomed are in Care. Making the Care system work properly would be a better start. Anyone who knows any person who has been through the Care system knows that they are badly damaged and easy prey.

And again I find myself pointing out (although I doubt that it will stop this thread disappearing down a racist rabbit-hole): the majority of grooming gangs which get detected and get in the papers are Asian. But since we don't know how many grooming gangs there are, that tells us little. There have been white grooming gangs for decades, as occasionally leaks out, but with much better "friends" enabling them to avoid detection to a large degree.
 
This has been widely known in much of the North for decades. Anywhere with heavy Pakistani populations knows this. Plenty of people knew about Rotherham and tried very hard to get intervention. These people were often called racist, dismissed It's par and not infrequently arrested if they tried to do something about it themself. It's partly religious. When you have a religion that teaches outsiders are less moral and classes people as either modest virgins or whores, you're laying the ground work for this. But it's heavily tied to Pakistan (and to a slightly lesser but still significant degree, India). Which is why it would be good if we could stop using the ill-fitting term "Asian" in this thread. We're not talking about Chinese communities or Malaysians.

Some facts:
1/ Pakistan until very recently required four male witnesses to the actual rape in order to prosecute. Just to prosecute! The judicial system is so stacked against women in Pakistan it's a wonder there are ever any convictions.
2/ In Pakistan, rape is frequently seen as an offense not against the victim, but on the honour of her male relatives. For example, a boy from one village raped a girl from another a few years ago in North Pakistan. The villages settled the matter by deciding the girl's brother would rape the first boy's sister to even things out. To them, this was JUSTICE. Because it was seen solely as the boy having been harmed by his sister being devalued. THIS is the mindset that is commonplace in Pakistan.
3/ Reported rapes in Pakistan are something like one fifth that of Britain. That's not because Pakistani men are one fifth as likely to commit rape as British men. It's because nobody bothers to report it. Rape is almost normalised in Pakistan.

These are all facts. It's is utterly logical to presume that when a large number of people immigrate from another country they bring their cultural values with them. I am NOT saying all Pakistani men are rapists. Obviously not. Nor am I calling for pre-emptive action against people based on their ethnicity. But I have had to put up with being called a racist for decades for trying to make people accept there is a problem. Again, look at Rotherham. People ringing the alarm bell were actively dismissed because (and this is explicitly acknowledged) the authorities "did not want to appear racist."

What's additionally insulting is that most of the time the person insisting I am a racist are people who don't even know any muslims. Or perhaps have a token "friend" which is really someone they work with on occasion. I've lived in areas with high Pakistani population and have had a number of friends from that background. Most of them suffered to a lesser or greater degree because of that background. In one case, my friend was sent abroad to marry someone she had met once, in Pakistan. In another, she was forbidden from talking to me and I'm pretty certain her phone was taken from her because I was never able to contact her again. This is a Pakistani girl of eighteen who literally vanished on me. I have no idea what ultimately happened to her. These were FRIENDS of mine. And *I* get called racist by people who live in posh areas that are almost wholely White and I don't think know a single muslim nor have a single Muslim friend. I had another friend (White British, this time) who was tricked into a taxi where she was molested by five Pakistani men over twice her age (she was sixteen at the time). You know one of the first things she said to me when she - crying - told me about this? "I'm not racist". Please think about that. She was grabbed and molested by five adults, held in a car against her will, and she's worried people wont believe her or will dismiss her because they'll call her racist. Consider what that indicates.

Sarah Champion - who led part of the Rotherham investigation and is a highly intelligent woman and great speaker - was dragged over the coals for saying that Pakistani men accounted for the overwhelming majority of a particular type of rape (organized, group rape). She had facts to support her statement. She did not do it in an over-broad way. But she was attacked vehemently for it. She was forced to resign her post.
 
Nothing in the thread has suggested that so far, it's almost like you're hankering for some sort of reaction.

Yes. Generally the mods here have been very supportive of open discussion so long as it follows the general rules of the site (avoid personal insults and use no words stronger than "poo" and "wee".) To be clear, my comment that being banned would be "nothing new", is a reflection on the treatment of such discussion by the general media and by politicians. I wasn't referring to OcUK forums.
 
This has been widely known in much of the North for decades. Anywhere with heavy Pakistani populations knows this. Plenty of people knew about Rotherham and tried very hard to get intervention. These people were often called racist, dismissed It's par and not infrequently arrested if they tried to do something about it themself. It's partly religious. When you have a religion that teaches outsiders are less moral and classes people as either modest virgins or whores, you're laying the ground work for this. But it's heavily tied to Pakistan (and to a slightly lesser but still significant degree, India). Which is why it would be good if we could stop using the ill-fitting term "Asian" in this thread. We're not talking about Chinese communities or Malaysians.

Some facts:
1/ Pakistan until very recently required four male witnesses to the actual rape in order to prosecute. Just to prosecute! The judicial system is so stacked against women in Pakistan it's a wonder there are ever any convictions.
2/ In Pakistan, rape is frequently seen as an offense not against the victim, but on the honour of her male relatives. For example, a boy from one village raped a girl from another a few years ago in North Pakistan. The villages settled the matter by deciding the girl's brother would rape the first boy's sister to even things out. To them, this was JUSTICE. Because it was seen solely as the boy having been harmed by his sister being devalued. THIS is the mindset that is commonplace in Pakistan.
3/ Reported rapes in Pakistan are something like one fifth that of Britain. That's not because Pakistani men are one fifth as likely to commit rape as British men. It's because nobody bothers to report it. Rape is almost normalised in Pakistan.

These are all facts. It's is utterly logical to presume that when a large number of people immigrate from another country they bring their cultural values with them. I am NOT saying all Pakistani men are rapists. Obviously not. Nor am I calling for pre-emptive action against people based on their ethnicity. But I have had to put up with being called a racist for decades for trying to make people accept there is a problem. Again, look at Rotherham. People ringing the alarm bell were actively dismissed because (and this is explicitly acknowledged) the authorities "did not want to appear racist."

What's additionally insulting is that most of the time the person insisting I am a racist are people who don't even know any muslims. Or perhaps have a token "friend" which is really someone they work with on occasion. I've lived in areas with high Pakistani population and have had a number of friends from that background. Most of them suffered to a lesser or greater degree because of that background. In one case, my friend was sent abroad to marry someone she had met once, in Pakistan. In another, she was forbidden from talking to me and I'm pretty certain her phone was taken from her because I was never able to contact her again. This is a Pakistani girl of eighteen who literally vanished on me. I have no idea what ultimately happened to her. These were FRIENDS of mine. And *I* get called racist by people who live in posh areas that are almost wholely White and I don't think know a single muslim nor have a single Muslim friend. I had another friend (White British, this time) who was tricked into a taxi where she was molested by five Pakistani men over twice her age (she was sixteen at the time). You know one of the first things she said to me when she - crying - told me about this? "I'm not racist". Please think about that. She was grabbed and molested by five adults, held in a car against her will, and she's worried people wont believe her or will dismiss her because they'll call her racist. Consider what that indicates.

Sarah Champion - who led part of the Rotherham investigation and is a highly intelligent woman and great speaker - was dragged over the coals for saying that Pakistani men accounted for the overwhelming majority of a particular type of rape (organized, group rape). She had facts to support her statement. She did not do it in an over-broad way. But she was attacked vehemently for it. She was forced to resign her post.

Excellent post.

Can we get one thing straight in this thread, this is an issue with Pakistani-Muslim men, NOT Asian men, so when people are describing them as Asian like a lot of posters in here seem to be doing, can you stop, as Asian is not the correct term, you are dumping in Hindu's and other religions in with these scumbags by saying "Asian".

Call it out for what it is, like the excellent post quoted above.
 
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