Soldato
- Joined
- 3 Jun 2005
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- 7,613
Now the Overton Window has finally moved on this perhaps we can work on solutions rather than pretending it doesn't exist.
Grooming gangs
- Thread starter LabR@t
- Start date
Man of Honour
I think it's understandable though. Just like terrorism, when it's 'foreigners' who commit these crimes everyone who resembles the attackers gets viewed as a potential terrorist. When there's a white person at fault for an attack there's no mobs going out and defacing churches or attacking random white people.
If these grooming gangs are operating in families then the only solution would be to encourage members of these communities to speak out and provide them with adequate protection and support when they do. Publishing reports that show it's disproportionately south asian men involved will only increase tensions and make it go deeper underground.
Oh I don't doubt at all that for some of those involved that part of Islam plays a part, I just don't think it's the driver that some make it out to be.
Yes there may be a small element of that attitude towards the 'kufar' but the reason I stress it being culture over religion is because in most cases the perpetrators aren't entirely practising Muslims, or even believers (Islam distinguishes between the two).
For example, I don't think I need to tell you about how alcohol is forbidden, but the actual sin is not just on the drinker but the seller, buyer, producer and transporter amongst others. The fact that the grooming gangs use drugs and alcohol on their victims should be enough to show that their motives are purely for sex, and in some cases for financial gain.
In Pakistan child abuse is common, and victims come from within the same communities where there is no separation between 'Muslim' and 'kufar'.
These 'people' simply wanted sex, and abused society's most vulnerable children to get what they wanted. Certain communities ok in Pakistan, like elsewhere, have practically no respect for women and see them as nothing more than something to simply cook, clean and have sex. I've seen the same attitude not only with Muslims but with Christians too.
Soldato
While I appreciate what you are saying the fact is that telling a young woman to keep their mouth shut when they have been abused for the sake of diversity is wrong. The problem is the people that commit this crime and the people who turn a blind eye to it. They will continue to do so until someone stands up to them and reports them. If a large amount of the perpetrators define themselves as muslim and there are a significant number of them then that's what the world will see. If its in a primarily muslim community then Its down that community to show that this behaviour is not tolerated. But I guess they wont as a) Its not vulnerable muslim girls that are being abused and b) it would probably be frowned upon within the community and from people of faith if they turn in their husband, brother etc.
Caporegime
Massive new one uncovered in Telford, according to the daily mirror's investigation?
Pretty messed up.
Pretty messed up.
The problem is that in the middle-east culture and religion are so intertwined it's difficult to separate the two, even for those in the middle-east. For example the full face veil, i bet a big section of middle-east men think it's religious when it's not
Most of the problem with grooming gangs was the fact that it was systematically covered up and allowed to continue for years by police and local (Labour) councils, even if the Muslim community had tried to 'speak out' it would have likely fell on deaf ears. EDL spent years trying to get the message out but they were systematically attacked and ignored. In Rotherham the victim count is supposedly 1500+ but after years of investigation still only a handful of men have been charged.
Most of the anger is towards government and local authorities not Muslims.
Soldato
When it's the religious police enforcing it like in Saudi it's not surprising people think it's religious.
NOTE: Not so much Saudi now with the new Crown Prince making it not a requirement and dispersing a lot of the religious police, but the point stands.
A good example, but a lot of Imams in the middle-east are to blame as well. They sometimes like to cloud the issue by pushing personal attitudes to virtues as religious teachings.
I have been laughed at before by saying this, but when you see a Muslim man dressed to the nines that you'd think he's an Imam in East London towing 3 daughters all less than 6 years old all wearing Hijabs. You know he's making them do it for personal reasons because in the Koran you're not supposed to make them wear Hijabs until they hit puberty. I was called out for making this up before when i said i saw similar in Birmingham! But you see it shockingly often in Birmingham and i saw the scene described above last week on the Jubilee Line.
Yeah, I remember that story where the officer literally tore up victim statements in-front of victims and told them to go home.
Makes you wonder whether it was being swept under the carpet so they can make it blow up to epic proportions and then have a massive media ****storm so they can use it to divide and conquer the nation.
It's basic psychology actually. Problems don't fix themselves, if you ignore a problem it simply gets worse and worse, as opposed to nipping something in the bud quickly and swiftly.
Permabanned
I don't understand it at all. We defo need to get better at catching them though.
I remember in a thread in the past someone mentioned that the girls were, and I quote, "complicit slappers". And it got me thinking, some of them could have really not wanted to do the things they did, but some of them may have actually wanted to take drugs and have sex, and they are only feeling as if they are "victims" because they have been told that they are supposed to be "victims".
Soldato
- Joined
- 21 Apr 2007
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- 6,603
"Authorities failed to keep details of abusers from Asian communities for fear of “racism”"
I saw this written in the mirror article about it. Have to laugh how far we've fallen.... you can't investigate something for fear of being called an ist.
I saw this written in the mirror article about it. Have to laugh how far we've fallen.... you can't investigate something for fear of being called an ist.
Exactly. And the only reason one would feel self-conscious about being racist, is if they actually were a racist, and racism is increasing. If someone was truly honest with themselves and knew they weren't a racist, why on earth would they feel self-conscious about appearing racist to others?
How many black people get let off for actual evidence-able crimes just because the arresting officer doesn't want to come across a racist?
Because if that is actually happening then this a bigger problem than it actually seems.
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Soldato
Just wait until Birmingham gets released. Its been happening there for decades.
Rotherham/Rochdale etc will seem like small fry.
I think some of these gangs operated in Market Drayton too. A former colleague who was in the "know" said girls were taken to a barn in the middle of nowhere. Taxis full of Pakistani men would come over the course of a few hours then mysteriously leave.
Its worth a listen to David Norfolk (I think that's his name) about grooming gangs.
There's at least 2 in operation in Stoke-on-Trent, known about for decades, perpetrators kept hidden, SWs, Police and Council all helping to ensure these girls are raped.
Birmingham... Mark my words... 10,000 or more with 10x that many abusers. All known, all supported by Councils, Police etc... But its racist to report this stuff.
Rotherham/Rochdale etc will seem like small fry.
I think some of these gangs operated in Market Drayton too. A former colleague who was in the "know" said girls were taken to a barn in the middle of nowhere. Taxis full of Pakistani men would come over the course of a few hours then mysteriously leave.
Its worth a listen to David Norfolk (I think that's his name) about grooming gangs.
There's at least 2 in operation in Stoke-on-Trent, known about for decades, perpetrators kept hidden, SWs, Police and Council all helping to ensure these girls are raped.
Birmingham... Mark my words... 10,000 or more with 10x that many abusers. All known, all supported by Councils, Police etc... But its racist to report this stuff.
As most of the girls involved are from fairly chaotic households and most were also underage, I think the term victim is accurate.
Soldato
It's also common knowledge around here that certain members of Mohammed Pervez's (the former leader of SoT City Council) family are involved in these gangs - mainly by way of transporting girls in their taxis.
Most of the girls weren't from any "household" let alone a chaotic one, some of them were in care. So yeah double victim.
But anyway my point was that some of them probably couldn't care less about being underage for drugs/sex until they were told otherwise.
Being a victim of something based on externally set conditions is different to feeling like a victim of something.
No it's not. If you try to rape someone's child who the parent actually cares for, you will most likely get shot with a double barrel and no one will ever hear from this person again and the chief of police will get paid a small fee to keep his mouth shut.
I mean most of the girl's parents in this particular scandal were completely absent. No father whatsoever so you need to compare like for like here. Yes poor people/children without families get abused in poor countries like India/Pakistan. The girls had no families, no family structure, were easily enticed to drugs, etc.
You saying "Pakistan child abuse is common" makes it sound as if no parent in Pakistan gives a crap about their own kids and just rents them out as prostitutes. A good parent is a good parent regardless of where they come from, but it's certainly not as normalised as you make it sound.
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Soldato
That's been known for years. How would you respond if I said.... The Police also take girls to the houses where the exploitation takes place?
I've had a lot of contact with some of these groomed girls in a prior job role. The way the SW treat them and the nonchalance of them AND Police is a disgrace.
I had a chat with a young lady, Pakistani who was very outspoken about her own family life. She, in a very frank way said a lot of lads do it because they have to "get it out of their system" and there were men "who do it for the same reason" I.e. Old men. She hated that it went on. The closest she came in defence of what was happening was to say the girls had no respect for themselves. Which, on retrospect, given they are being let down by everyone who was meant to protect them... No... ******* ... Wonder.
I actually think that Stoke has a similar number of girls as Rotherham. Hundreds of girls are on the watch list or known. That is just current numbers. Imagine rewinding to the 00's (hundreds again). 90's (hundreds again).
Someone said that there haven't been many convictions. They are right. Isn't it something like 260 people? Some of these girls alone have said they were abused and raped by more than 200. I think/know that if the scale of this organised practice among [significant] portions of the Pakistani community truly came to light, that there would be many tens of thousands of abusers.
The earliest documented piece of information that could be found was of it occurring in 1988 (30years), and now, thanks to sleuths an article has been found from 1975 of a teenager (~16) who was a victim.
It would not surprize me in the slightest if victims of these gangs numbered upwards of 100,000.
Still... Birmingham... It will take a gargantuan effort to keep it quiet or it will as with other councils result in total denial.