GT3 vs E92 M3 vs GT-R Autocar Video!

Gibbo · 23 Feb 2008 at 22:00

Hi there

Why is BMW do seem to fit poor brakes to their performance cars in comparison to some competitors? Apart from that their performance cars generally seem very good but they always seem weak on the brakes.

The Audi RS4 has much superior brakes, I've driven two. Even hot hatches come with better brake setups which to be honest seems bonkers considering the price the M cars generally go for.

Matt82 · 23 Feb 2008 at 22:01

better than any top gear

[TW]Fox · 23 Feb 2008 at 22:03

Gibbo said:
Why is BMW do seem to fit poor brakes to their performance cars in comparison to some competitors? Apart from that their performance cars generally seem very good but they always seem weak on the brakes

I dont know. It's really unfathomable becuase the brakes on their standard cars are actually VERY good in comparison with the competition, it just seems that for the M variants they dont uprate them far enough from the regular ones.

I guess thats why M3 owners forums probably have the highest ratio of BBK:Members of any forum anywhere

Gibbo · 23 Feb 2008 at 22:05

[TW]Fox;11164214 said:
I dont know. It's really unfathomable becuase the brakes on their standard cars are actually VERY good in comparison with the competition, it just seems that for the M variants they dont uprate them far enough from the regular ones.

I guess thats why M3 owners forums probably have the highest ratio of BBK:Members of any forum anywhere

HI there

Yep the brakes on my 525i are good!

But the ones on my CSL are better, but not as good as a decent set of 4 piston Brembo's as found on most hot hatches.

Think BMW should partnership up with Brembo and start fitting their 4 piston and 6 piston GT kits to their M cards.

[TW]Fox · 23 Feb 2008 at 22:07

I think the problem BMW have is that their brakes are excellent for typical road use - the stopping power of my 530 never ceases to amaze me, it's absolutely excellent.

But many people do not buy an M3 for typical road use - they buy an M3 for long, hard driving on both road and track and the brakes just cannot cope with this.

Mr.Bon · 23 Feb 2008 at 22:08

Damn, videos are not working for me. Suggestions?

MarkDavis · 23 Feb 2008 at 22:14

Great videos. Great cars. The Porsche is lovely even if it is slightly slower than GT-R.

snowdog · 23 Feb 2008 at 22:14

Shimmy said:
Makes me want a GT-R even more, and one of my dream cars.

I love the GTR and will work to buy one someday.
Can't wait to see the V-spec version.

Matt82 · 23 Feb 2008 at 22:15

e30 m3s might be for fast road/track use, but later ones are hardly going to be owned/driven by hardcore enthusiasts, more likely to see the owner proping up the bar with a pims

[TW]Fox · 23 Feb 2008 at 22:26

M3 drivers and pimms?!

cheets64 · 23 Feb 2008 at 22:32

GT-R for me sleeker, fast and Japanese built.

willd58 · 23 Feb 2008 at 22:35

[TW]Fox;11164339 said:
M3 drivers and pimms?!

And wearing Oakleys whilst also wearing a bluetooth phone kit.

Matt82 · 23 Feb 2008 at 22:56

absoltely

Adam_D200 · 23 Feb 2008 at 23:15

Excellent review

For such a portly car the GTR is certainly very impressive and practical

Would love to see one in the flesh so to speak.

Housey · 24 Feb 2008 at 00:01

Alibaba99 said:
For the price difference the GT3 and Skyline you could have the Nissan for daily driving and something totally focused for the Sunday morning blat.

I would not wish to take a Radical, Caterham, Westfield, Lotus or any such 'focused' car for a hoon across Europe or most of the time for a 400 mile round trip over a GT3. This is why the GT3 is held in such high regard, its the best combination of everything you want in a weekend or hooning tool, and nothing has bettered it yet in my opinion and is why a Skyline and a car such as a Radical would not fit the bill for me.

ZG002 · 24 Feb 2008 at 02:02

[TW]Fox;11164170 said:
Chris Harris is a legend - his presenting style isnt that great but this is becuase he is a car enthusiast and a writer, not a TV presenter, so I'm happy to forgive him that.

The stuff he writes for Autocar is excellent, infact to be honest Autocar is probably the most trustworthy and professional car mag out there.

+1 I think hes great lol. Also read auto car weekly

Clarkey · 24 Feb 2008 at 02:53

[TW]Fox;11164214 said:
I dont know. It's really unfathomable becuase the brakes on their standard cars are actually VERY good in comparison with the competition, it just seems that for the M variants they dont uprate them far enough from the regular ones.

Whilst I can't comment on M cars, I do feel that while the brakes on BMWs (speaking solely from experience with an e46 here) are undoubtedly very effective, the level of servo assist is massive and this gives the illusion that the brakes are better than they are. I'm not a huge fan tbh, there is a level of delicacy required on the pedal to come to a nice smooth stop that just isn't required in any other car i've driven, seemingly just tickling the pedal often results in coming to a dramatic juddering halt. Modulation is deffo a lot better in cars with less servo assist.

Tax Evader · 24 Feb 2008 at 07:46

Gibbo said:
Think BMW should partnership up with Brembo and start fitting their 4 piston and 6 piston GT kits to their M cards.

They already have partnered up to produce brake kits under BMW's name. There will also be other hardware available in their new performance packages. It's early days at the moment though...
Check out the 135tii to see some of the gear.

That's why they booted that tacky AC Schnitzer stuff out.

lordrobs · 24 Feb 2008 at 09:37

I wonder just how those ceramic brakes on the Porka are to live with day to day. Awesome stopping power on track is one thing but getting to the roundabout at the end of the road with a vague brake pedal because you haven't got enough heat in them might wear thin.

This is an open question rather than a statement as I have no idea how they perform when cold compared to standard discs.

MarkDavis · 24 Feb 2008 at 11:07

[TW]Fox;11164233 said:
I think the problem BMW have is that their brakes are excellent for typical road use - the stopping power of my 530 never ceases to amaze me, it's absolutely excellent.

But many people do not buy an M3 for typical road use - they buy an M3 for long, hard driving on both road and track and the brakes just cannot cope with this.

You think the stock brakes on your 530 are 'excellent' only because you've never tested them. Any discs/pads will be able to complete a couple of emergency stops and easily cope with the driving that you do.

But for extended fast road use, your brakes will fast begin to fade in no time at all (assuming they're original parts). The brakes on my 323 would often start to feel a bit mushy with heavy road use until I replaced the original discs/pads with Ferrodos and installed braided lines. Slightly dusty and occasionally squeely (neither of which you like) but amazing performance when they're warm.

I also remember in some of the Evo tests when they takes cars away for a few days, that they also commented on M3 brake fade. If Renault can produce a Clio than can go round a track without any brake fade, you have to wonder why BMW can't on a car costing three times as much.