GTX 1070/1080 cost the same as 680/670 (after FX & inflation)

[melmac]

The '60 is defined as an enthusiast card. Just admit where you're incorrect Maxwell had three enthuiast chips contrary to what you said.


That's not the best invocation of Occam's Razor, because both alternatives are quite simple. I have come around somewhat to seeing the 500 series as having a lot more chip compared to the 600/700 series. But this was because of someone else who bothered to highlight a veryinteresting fact. Maybe you could do more than shout your conclusions? Maybe start a thread with a 500 series comparison?


Stay frosty.

LOL, you get very angry when someone points out how wrong you are. You do not like at all do you?

If you can point out in any of my previous posts where I was rude or shouting, then I will accept what you say. Oh and I wasn't shouting before this post, I am going to be in this one.

If you can't take criticism then you shouldn't post in a public forum. It's plain to see that you Don't respond well to it.

Let's start with your makey uppie Nvidia Strategy. Why would I admit to something that's not true? I have no problem admitting when I am wrong and I have done so numerous times on this forum, but I am not wrong here.

The 960 is not an enthusiast card now. Based on a GM206? And all the sites you listed, well you forget one important word that they all use, and that is "mainstream"

Techspot

The GTX 960 is the latest iteration of the Maxwell architecture, featuring all the technologies we love from the said architecture in an affordable mainstream price

Techporn

The New Mainstream GeForce, GTX 960 Reviewed

Guru 3d

The GTX 960 is the mainstream product that we figured has a notch too little memory

Bjorn3D

Zotac GTX960 AMP!-edition, Maxwell goes mainstream

I could go on, but I don't think anyone on these forums, or any other forums would call the 960 anything other than mainstream card. It's card with only a 128-bit bus, half the cuda cores, less than £200 and not recommended for 1440p?

Are you honestly going say that this is an enthusiast card?

You rattled on about the 200 series having no large chip, and then you went on about the GK110 been a wonder chip and couldn't be compared to previous generations. The GK110 was an amazing piece of engineering, so was the G80 and and so was the GF110.

The 680 and 670 were renamed. Previous two generations the mid tier chips produced the x60 cards. Kepler comes and mid range chips suddenly produce cards called 680 and 670. Don't know how simpler I can make it. And as I said this was discussed to death at the time. In fact even before release most people thought the Nvidia were releasing the x60 cards first based on the specs, Gk104 chip, 256 bit bus etc.

What would you call it? x60ti and x60 one generation, x80 and x70 the next?

Point out your simple reasoning the answer? I hope it's not the same reasoning that you used about the 200 series having no large chip or the GK110 been special.

Peace out!!

 

[Orangey]

http://www.geforce.co.uk/hardware/compare-buy-gpus

950 included in "Extreme HD Gaming" category.

http://maxwell.nvidia.com/gtx-960

"The GTX 960 is everything you could ask for in a graphics card for the mainstream enthusiast."

- PC World

Suppose you could say that's NV endorsing those choice of words, bit tenuous if you ask me.

 

[philo-sofa]

LOL, you get very angry when someone points out how wrong you are. You do not like at all do you?

Nope, but I do get angry when people refuse to be reasonable and/or misquote. I actually derive a slightly wincing pleasure from being proven wrong by smart people wielding facts. But back to you...

The 960 is not an enthusiast card now. Based on a GM206? And all the sites you listed, well you forget one important word that they all use, and that is "mainstream"… Techspot Techporn Guru 3d Bjorn3D

I didn't suggest (all but one of) those sites, you misquoted me. Here are some quotes from the sites I suggested.

Eurogamer: "[GTX 960] Does Nvidia's sub-£200 enthusiast-level Maxwell card deliver?"

Anandtech: "Launching today is the GeForce GTX 960 and the GM206 GPU. Following in the established traditions of the x60 video cards, NVIDIA is looking to reestablish their place in the enthusiast video card market with their latest offering."

I could go on, but I don't think anyone on these forums, or any other forums would call the 960 anything other than mainstream card.

It's certainly at the lower end of enthusiast melmac, but the majority of people who call themselves enthusiasts don't buy >£200 GPUs. I'll side with those debutantes over at Anandtech and call it an enthusiast card.

You rattled on about the 200 series having no large chip, and then you went on about the GK110 been a wonder chip and couldn't be compared to previous generations.

Actually I said:

Looking back at your list, it very true the 200, 400 and 500 series' muddied the water; they were gigantic compared to their predecessors. Nvidia wanted to start their 'big die' strategy with the 200 series cards iirc, but when their first unified architecture failed to perform they released their big chip as a mainstream product. Nvidia did release 500mm^2 cards as '70 and '80 series, for all that it was because they had no other choice.

Which seems pretty reasonable. You have decided to misquote me and engage in a straw man fallacy, which could be effective if not called out.

Point out your simple reasoning the answer? I hope it's not the same reasoning that you used about the 200 series having no large chip or the GK110 been special.

I didn't say that, but here's what I did say, which encapsulates my reasoning:

As above, neither the GK 104 nor 110 chips exactly matched their predecessors in size, one was smaller and the other bigger, so it's a little more complicated than saying it was a renaming of the '60 and '70 models. As mentioned Nivida had wanted to create a 'really ****ing huge' chip for the 200 series, but ended up releasing it for the mainstream. Thus in some ways the 200, 400 and 500 series were unusual.

 

[straxusii]

Op is wrong, I bought 680 on launch day for £420

http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/36865-nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-launch-day-pricing-availability/



Launch day pricing of 1080 was £620, even discounting the FE what's the cheapest in stock 1080 anyone has seen?

 

[james.miller]

Who cares about the x60 cards? Why are people only allowed to quote philo-sofa approved websites ? Why is philo-sofa claiming everyone else is getting angry when it's clearly him losing his rag and dishing out the insults?

Why did I just sit here and read this nonsense at 7.20am wen I could be doing something more productive. Like gouging my eyes out with a spoon.

Nah I'm just kidding. Agree with melmac though.

 

[melmac]

Nope, but I do get angry when people refuse to be reasonable and/or misquote. I actually derive a slightly wincing pleasure from being proven wrong by smart people wielding facts. But back to you...:

I guess you spend a lot of time wincing then based on your posts in this thread.

Misquote you? Strawman? You were wrong, There is no misquote from me. You are just seem to be making stuff up, giving no real details, just words like Big Die Strategy, three chip Strategy.

You said, and I quote,

Nvidia wanted to start their 'big die' strategy with the 200 series cards iirc, but when their first unified architecture failed to perform they released their big chip as a mainstream product

Their first unified architecture was the 8 series cards, the 8800 GTX, 8800 GT etc. They did not fail to perform and produced some of their best cards ever. The 8 series cards were also the beginning of Nvidia's large die sizes. The G80 was ~490mm2 the previous high end 7 series chip, the G70 was only around 330mm2.

Basically, you are wrong, please feel free to admit it. Thanks.

Next, you made a conclusion that the cards based of the Gk110 should be treated differently and fractured the enthusiast market. You made that conclusion based on the fact(which you had wrong) that the GK110 was the biggest chip ever made.

Your conclusions have to be called into question when the very fact that lead to those conclusions are wrong.

But lets go one step further. You say the GK110 marked the change to the 3 chip strategy? Show me how that applies to that generation of cards? The 700 series cards.

Here is a quote from Eurogamer:

combined with a mainstream GTX 960 in a single package

Some sites are calling it a mainstream enthusiast card. But most sites and forums are calling it a mainstream card.

It's certainly at the lower end of enthusiast melmac, but the majority of people who call themselves enthusiasts don't buy >£200 GPUs. I'll side with those debutantes over at Anandtech and call it an enthusiast card.

A very flimsy argument, I know lots of graphic card enthusiasts who don't even have £100 cards. Does that make their cards enthusiast cards? And of course you will side with what Anandtech say. Just completely ignore the majority.

You really would have to be grasping at straws to win an argument if you honestly claim the 960 is anything else other than a mainstream card.

As above, neither the GK 104 nor 110 chips eactly matched their predecessors in size, one was smaller and the other bigger, so it's a little more complicated than saying it was a renaming of the '60 and '70 models. As mentioned Nivida had wanted to create a 'really ****ing huge' chip for the 200 series, but ended up releasing it for the mainstream. Thus in some ways the 200, 400 and 500 series were unusual.

What does all this even mean? I have asked for your explanation for why the GK104 cards were called 680/670 instead of 660ti and 660. You say above about different die sizes, and I have previously explained that die sizes are never quite the same after a die shrink. You say it's a little more complicated. Explain? Answer the question that I asked in my last post.

400 series, 500 series exact same naming structure. 600 series, the x60 cards suddenly become x80 and x70 cards. Name change and price hike is what I am claiming happened. You say it's not that simple. Well please enlighten us!!

 

[melmac]

Like gouging my eyes out with a spoon..

Well I am sorry about your eyes, hope they recover.

More for you to read

 

[philo-sofa]

Misquote you? Strawman? You were wrong, There is no misquote from me. You are just seem to be making stuff up, giving no real details, just words like Big Die Strategy, three chip Strategy.

I've given extensive details, over and over again. You keep misquoting, asking questions I've already answered and you never admit a point no matter how wrong you are. It's like discussing things with a 9/11 truther.

 

[tommybhoy]

Cheapo "Reference Blower" 1070 is £365, my cheapo Zotac "Reference Blower" 970 cost £214 and included 2 free games, they both have comparable ~doubling up of spec/performance over their previous gens.

If Nv can be rewarded with positivity for reducing pricing, they can be dammed for increasing prices-it works both ways.

 

[philo-sofa]

True, but we need to account for inflation at the least and ideally also take into account exchange rates. Those things aren't Nvidia changing the pricing.

 

[tommybhoy]

Giving a modest £15 value for each title, inflation/exchange rates doesn't remotely equate to a ~100% increase over what I paid.

 

[se_vietboi]

Lmao at 60 being considered an enthusiast card by anyone or any website.

Thanks for the laughs in this thread philo-sofa.

Agree with melmac.

 

[melmac]

I've given extensive details, over and over again. You keep misquoting, asking questions I've already answered and you never admit a point no matter how wrong you are. It's like discussing things with a 9/11 truther.

Extensive details? you have given no details. What is wrong with you? Read back your posts and tell me how that explains anything? Come on, tell me, how is the 700 series a 3 chip strategy? You have give no details except to say that the GK110 was the point where they fractured the enthusiast market and started their 3 chip strategy. That's it, I keep asking you what's the 3 chip strategy, you won't answer. You just keep telling me that I misquoted you.

And you just ignore the fact that most of your information is just wrong. Gk110 die size, the unified architecture, GT200,

You accused me of misquoting you about the websites? Where did I misquote? I said that you missed the word "mainstream" from those sites you listed and then went on to publish quotes from other sites that listed the 960 gtx as mainstream.


And then you keep deflecting, not answering, accusing me of getting aggravated, shouting out conclusions and misquoting you.


You have never answered any of my questions or pointed anywhere I was wrong. Apart from the 960 been an enthusiast card. It's not, that's why I wont admit I am wrong.

 

[philo-sofa]

Giving a modest £15 value for each title, inflation/exchange rates doesn't remotely equate to a ~100% increase over what I paid.

You kind of need to compare release dates to release dates, as amongst other things the GPU makers bundle games to cards at later dates. As we at least all seem to agree on, 10 series prices will go way down over time.

Lmao at 60 being considered an enthusiast card by anyone or any website.

Thanks for the laughs in this thread philo-sofa.

You're entitled to your opinion, but if you're laughing at Anandtech's opinion you are probably not right.

Extensive details? you have given no details. What is wrong with you? Read back your posts and tell me how that explains anything? Come on, tell me, how is the 700 series a 3 chip strategy? You have give no details except to say that the GK110 was the point where they fractured the enthusiast market and started their 3 chip strategy. That's it, I keep asking you what's the 3 chip strategy, you won't answer. You just keep telling me that I misquoted you.

You have never answered any of my questions or pointed anywhere I was wrong. Apart from the 960 been an enthusiast card. It's not, that's why I wont admit I am wrong.

I've explained things endlessly, you're simply lying.

 

[tommybhoy]

You kind of need to compare release dates to release dates, as amongst other things the GPU makers bundle games to cards at later dates.

It still doesn't equate to a £70 mark up(taking the £30 for the titles out of the equation), the card I got always floated about the price I paid(give or take a tenner either way) the majority of it's shelf life.

Anyway, imo, your boat has more holes in it than you have fingers, reading around, the vast majority of Nv users don't agree with you, sounds like desperation of justification to me, if you bought into Pascal, just enjoy it.

 

[melmac]

Anyway, imo, your boat has more holes in it than you have fingers, reading around, the vast majority of Nv users don't agree with you, sounds like desperation of justification to me, if you bought into Pascal, just enjoy it.

LOL exactly this. His boat is full of wholes, what's even funnier is that he doesn't even realise he is sinking!!

 

[melmac]

I've explained things endlessly, you're simply lying.

I do not lie.

Get off your condescending high horse.

The reason you can't explain the 3 chip strategy for the 700 series is because it doesn't exist. You didn't list chip names, you didn't list cards. I quoted the only sentence that you used to explain the strategy and that itself was wrong because you based it on the GK110 been the biggest chip ever.

 

[melmac]

Lmao at 60 being considered an enthusiast card by anyone or any website.

Thanks for the laughs in this thread philo-sofa.

Agree with melmac.

If you did a poll on this site I think the majority of people would laugh just like you have. Never mind that an X60 been called an enthusiast card, but the 960 is worse than previous generations only having a 128bit bus.

But apparently we have to go by anandtech only, and what they say is the truth despite most other websites calling it mainstream.

So we are wrong, who knew!!

 

[philo-sofa]

Anyway, imo, your boat has more holes in it than you have fingers, reading around, the vast majority of Nv users don't agree with you, sounds like desperation of justification to me, if you bought into Pascal, just enjoy it.

Not exactly. As I said at the start the 10 series cost the same as the six series if you control for FX and inflation. There are no holes in that boat whatsoever. It's certainly an unpopular fact, but that's why I posted this thread.

The rest of this really is a side show based on my support for others saying that '60, '70 and '80 models have remained the same over time. I accept that's more ambiguous, but it's both off topic to the 600/10 series comparison and a complex situation.

LOL exactly this. His boat is full of wholes, what's even funnier is that he doesn't even realise he is sinking!!

STFU.

 

[tommybhoy]

Arrogance reminiscent of Nv's pricing model.