Have things got out of hand?

[pingwing]

If it wasn't racist why should he apologise?

The chap is just concerned about his safety, especially when laws are flaunted for people of certain religions... certain religions which come from certain countries where higher than average numbers of people aren't developed enough to act in an empathetic, civilised manner.

Maybe i'll wear a balaclava next time and see how far i get, the recognised attire of the IRA. If i get asked to take it off i'll accuse them of stereotyping.

Usually you have to apologise for being rude, which he really was. He could have done the sensible thing and just said nothing and gotten on with his life, instead of taking the miserable old fart option of saying something smart and then being held to account for his rude, nonsense views.

Please don't think you are taking action by wondering through airport security with a balaclava on, you are just going to look a fool trying to make a comparable situation out of it.

 

[grimm]

Not intended in an offensive or disrespectful way... but I often think that if all forms of religion were outlawed or done away with somehow then the world would be a much better place.

Controversial and impractical I know, but I can't help thinking it.

Then again we'd probably find something else to cause conflict over like football teams or fishing rights or something.

 

[scorza]

Because when she went through passport control her face wasn't covered.

At Gatwick, passport control and the security scanners are in the same area.

 

[Andy]

Usually you have to apologise for being rude, which he really was. He could have done the sensible thing and just said nothing and gotten on with his life, instead of taking the miserable old fart option of saying something smart and then being held to account for his rude, nonsense views.

Nonsense? Rude? Does he not have a point? I would recommend if people do not want a racial divide in their country then perhaps they should treat people equally.

Isn't it a weeeeee bit hypocritical?

 

[pingwing]

Nonsense? Rude? Does he not have a point? I would recommend if people do not want a racial divide in their country then perhaps they should treat people equally.

Isn't it a weeeeee bit hypocritical?

No he doesn't have a point at all. To treat people equally should come from the way they are able to express their individuality in society, not from society treating them in a uniform manor, so to have a fair and just society we have to accept that not everyone is the same in the first place.

He was kicking up a fuss about something that was none of his business for the purpose of being rude and making a point that did not need to be said. I am glad he was held to account of his views as they were unwarranted and unpleasant.

 

[grimm]

No he doesn't have a point at all. To treat people equally should come from the way they are able to express their individuality in society, not from society treating them in a uniform manor, so to have a fair and just society we have to accept that not everyone is the same in the first place.

He was kicking up a fuss about something that was none of his business for the purpose of being rude and making a point that did not need to be said. I am glad he was held to account of his views as they were unwarranted and unpleasant.

Sorry but you can't be 100% sure whether he was being rude or not. You are making an assumption to push your own agenda.

It's perfectly plausible that he had a genuine concern about the procedures in place and it would have been perfectly reasonable in that situation to simply re-assure the man and put his mind at rest before sending him on his way.

Education and raising awareness is always preferable to disproportionate punishments. It's not like he assaulted the woman and ripped her headgear off is it?

Whichever way you look at it, the treatment he received was most definitely disproportionate to what he did.

 

[Andy]

No he doesn't have a point at all. To treat people equally should come from the way they are able to express their individuality in society, not from society treating them in a uniform manor, so to have a fair and just society we have to accept that not everyone is the same in the first place.

He was kicking up a fuss about something that was none of his business for the purpose of being rude and making a point that did not need to be said. I am glad he was held to account of his views as they were unwarranted and unpleasant.

If my safety is in question then i am entitled to express my views, pointing out someone else getting preferential treatment is hardly rude. If safety has been put aside for religious grounds then i would feel i am getting treated differently, this is the divide i refer to. I would imagine treating people differently is what causes a lot of racial hatred.

Also, if this is the beginning, where does it end? Maybe i'll get my friend to do my driving test for me or sneak a calculator into an exam.

 

[pingwing]

Sorry but you can't be 100% sure whether he was being rude or not. You are making an assumption to push your own agenda.

It's perfectly plausible that he had a genuine concern about the procedures in place and it would have been perfectly reasonable in that situation to simply re-assure the man and put his mind at rest before sending him on his way.

Education and raising awareness is always preferable to disproportionate punishments. It's not like he assaulted the woman and ripped her headgear off is it?

Whichever way you look at it, the treatment he received was most definitely disproportionate to what he did.

You can be 100% he was being rude, either to the woman wearing the hijab or to the security staff. Either way his intent was to be rude to someone either by telling them it is inappropriate for them to be able to express them selves in public or trying to tell someone they are not doing the job properly.

As I have repeatedly said, it is not up to any random person to tell someone they cannot express their religion in public. We do not live in France.

We also do not live in a country where anyone has to put up with a random member of the public being told they are doing their job wrong. You don't walk onto a bus and scream at the driver is doing it wrong and expect them to take it and carry on like normal!

If my safety is in question then i am entitled to express my views, pointing out someone else getting preferential treatment is hardly rude. If safety has been put aside for religious grounds then i would feel i am getting treated differently, this is the divide i refer to. I would imagine treating people differently is what causes a lot of racial hatred.

Also, if this is the beginning, where does it end? Maybe i'll get my friend to do my driving test for me or sneak a calculator into an exam.

Why is your safety in question is someone wears a religious headscarf through the security scanner? Surely if there is something of concern to your safety it will be picked up on by the staff and not some nosey member of the public. I'm sure some common sense can be applied to if they look shifty or like they are trying to hide something in the first place.

I don't see how getting a friend to do your driving test is relevant (though there was an amusing story of a man taking the test for someone else and getting done for fraud).

This attitude that the man is right is what causes racial hatred as he is trying to force a brand of uniformity onto the public life by demanding that no common sense be applied to peoples religious difference, which is just rude.

 

[brummie]

You can be 100% he was being rude, either to the woman wearing the hijab or to the security staff. Either way his intent was to be rude to someone either by telling them it is inappropriate for them to be able to express them selves in public or trying to tell someone they are not doing the job properly.

As I have repeatedly said, it is not up to any random person to tell someone they cannot express their religion in public. We do not live in France.

We also do not live in a country where anyone has to put up with a random member of the public being told they are doing their job wrong. You don't walk onto a bus and scream at the driver is doing it wrong and expect them to take it and carry on like normal!



Why is your safety in question is someone wears a religious headscarf through the security scanner? Surely if there is something of concern to your safety it will be picked up on by the staff and not some nosey member of the public. I'm sure some common sense can be applied to if they look shifty or like they are trying to hide something in the first place.

I don't see how getting a friend to do your driving test is relevant (though there was an amusing story of a man taking the test for someone else and getting done for fraud).

This attitude that the man is right is what causes racial hatred as he is trying to force a brand of uniformity onto the public life by demanding that no common sense be applied to peoples religious difference, which is just rude.

Proof the OP was right

 

[Andy]

......

The situation can be interpreted both ways, no doubt. Could you not give him the benefit of the doubt? Does your assumption he is being rude not make you abit of a doubting douche? Does your attitude not perpetuate and exacerbate the assumtion we are all racists??

 

[grimm]

You can be 100% he was being rude

No, you can't.

Either way his intent was to be rude to someone either by telling them it is inappropriate for them to be able to express them selves in public or trying to tell someone they are not doing the job properly.

Again, you can't possibly know that.

As I have repeatedly said, it is not up to any random person to tell someone they cannot express their religion in public. We do not live in France.

True, we don't live in France, but non-headscarf wearers also have a right to express their opinions and voice their concerns as long as no laws are broken.

We also do not live in a country where anyone has to put up with a random member of the public being told they are doing their job wrong. You don't walk onto a bus and scream at the driver is doing it wrong and expect them to take it and carry on like normal!

If someone is being negligent or not performing their job properly, anyone has the right to speak up about it, either to the person concerned or to that person's superiors. Even if you are just concerned about it you are allowed to double check, especially in a situation where personal safety is an issue.

Why is your safety in question is someone wears a religious headscarf through the security scanner? Surely if there is something of concern to your safety it will be picked up on by the staff and not some nosey member of the public. I'm sure some common sense can be applied to if they look shifty or like they are trying to hide something in the first place.

It doesn't matter, in an airport, if something is suspicious (could just be an unattended bag, could be a person) it is your duty to inform the relevant authorities. Even if you are just uncomfortable with something it is perfectly acceptable to question the procedures and seek re-assurances.

I don't see how getting a friend to do your driving test is relevant (though there was an amusing story of a man taking the test for someone else and getting done for fraud).

I can see your point here.

This attitude that the man is right is what causes racial hatred as he is trying to force a brand of uniformity onto the public life by demanding that no common sense be applied to peoples religious difference, which is just rude.

You're way over the top here unless you can get significant proof that he was pushing some racist agenda. I hardly feel that a comment made in airport security is proof of that. It's not like he's taking to the streets aggressively or running weekly KKK meetings is it?

 

[pingwing]

No, you can't.

Again, you can't possibly know that.

Well that's the problem, we can't tell what his intentions are, but the manor he was expressing his views do give the impression of being rude, so it is a relatively sensible conclusion to reach.

True, we don't live in France, but non-headscarf wearers also have a right to express their opinions and voice their concerns as long as no laws are broken.

Well there isn't a law against being offended, that would be silly, but there are basic common curtsies which the guy did ignore by (in an interpretation) point the finger and say she could be a terrorist. Hardly a sensible thing to say in an airport.

If someone is being negligent or not performing their job properly, anyone has the right to speak up about it, either to the person concerned or to that person's superiors. Even if you are just concerned about it you are allowed to double check, especially in a situation where personal safety is an issue.

Yes but the context is security staff in an airport. It is not a situation where being a hysterical individual over a headscarf is an appropriate check on staffs ability.

More so when this is the general policy on individuals on wearing religious head gear. (its an American which has generally lead the way on airport security post 9/11)

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/s...llery/changed_airline_security_policies?pg=12

It doesn't matter, in an airport, if something is suspicious (could just be an unattended bag, could be a person) it is your duty to inform the relevant authorities. Even if you are just uncomfortable with something it is perfectly acceptable to question the procedures and seek re-assurances.

If he was being a polite individual about this matter I am sure he would not have been held by security staff for expressing these concerns. Again he appears a rude individual because his concerns do not appear genuine and appear to be antagonistic through the lens of "security".

You're way over the top here unless you can get significant proof that he was pushing some racist agenda. I hardly feel that a comment made in airport security is proof of that. It's not like he's taking to the streets aggressively or running weekly KKK meetings is it?

My point is his actions are not appropriate for the situation. Making a "smart" comment about this sort of situation does not seem fair or the actions of a rational individual. If he had a genuine concern I'm sure he could have taken the matter up seriously with the staff, but the way it appears to have happened is that he has tried to make an issue of something that is not one in an inappropriate manor.

 

[Strife212]

My point is his actions are not appropriate for the situation. Making a "smart" comment about this sort of situation does not seem fair or the actions of a rational individual. If he had a genuine concern I'm sure he could have taken the matter up seriously with the staff, but the way it appears to have happened is that he has tried to make an issue of something that is not one in an inappropriate manor.

It's exactly the opposite, the airport staff made an issue of something that was incredibly trivial.

It does no one any favors and leads to headlines in the daily mail like

Nightmare of Fireman Sam creator branded a racist over quip to airport security

which end up stirring up more racial tensions.

 

[Dmack]

If he said just what he's quoted saying in that article then yes i believe he was right.

 

[Jonnybmac]

seems the only racist people are the people who jump on the racist bandwagon and cause the problems...


OMG RACIST

seriously... this is why i hate goverments and offocials.. they target the wrong people

if i pointed to a guy with golsd rings and a burberry cap saying if i was wearing a cap on my head.. would i be penalised for discriminating against chavs?

 

[OverStudent]

I disagree with the airport.

 

[Tefal]

instead of taking the miserable old fart option of saying something smart and then being held to account for his rude, nonsense views.

pretty sure taking the **** and sarcasm are the corner stones of being British.