Heat Pumps: anyone have one/thought about it?

[rangor gubbins]

Its a shame the renewable heat incentive grants don't exist anymore as that made the installation very cheap (or even negative in some instances!).
But I think there are still grants to be had for replacing gas boilers with a heat pump. I have a vague memory that the government will pay £5k towards a new ASHP install.

 

[fish]

Yep it’s 5k where it used to be closer to 10 I think

 

[Coran]

Thought about it. My house is very well insulated, so it's an ideal candidate for it. The problem is I really want to get rid of the hot water tank because ultimately the heat ends up in the house and it gets too hot - and I'll eventually have AC so I'll be paying twice for that energy, once to heat water and again to cool the house. So IMO a water tank doesn't make sense for a well insulated house, especially one that isn't big and I'm the only resident. There are electric boilers, the only problem with them is leccy cost, but there's every reason to believe electricity will be cheaper in the future as we get more renewables/nuclear and decouple the price from gas. So I think rather than struggling to push everyone into heat pumps the govt would be better off getting leccy prices down, then people can choose electric boilers, much simpler solution.

You should look at an air to air heat pump. This will give you the space heating and AC but won’t work for water heating. You’ll need electric showers to go with.

Heat pumps can have an efficiency of around 300% so, with that figure, use a third as much electricity to heat your home. It’s a far greener option than using a 100% efficient electric boiler.

 

[Coran]

The benefit of the new £5k boiler upgrade scheme over the renewable heat incentive scheme is that you get the amount straight away, to put against the installation cost whereas the RHI was over a few years.

I’d strongly recommend looking into an ASHP for most. As a general rule, it will be the single biggest reduction you could make to your CO2 emissions.

In terms of the financial side, the upfront cost will be much higher and the ongoing cost not that much lower. It’s all about introducing a more environmentally friendly way of heating our homes, which it is.

This is a good, factual video explaining heat pumps: https://youtu.be/n3AoUjuBixA?si=ChZ8u8A-Evse3Egj

 

[b0rn2sk8]

You can get air to air systems that also heat hot water if you want to go that route. It’s worth noting that the EPC system doesn’t recognise air to air as a heat source at the moment. I think it actually lowers your EPC as it sees AC as an energy cost.

Hot water cylinders are the way to go and modern ones leak very little heat of installed correctly with pipes lagged etc.

I would have a look at ‘heat geek’ on the internet/YouTube if you want a heat pump installed correctly. They are a training provider for installers and have a network of approved installers who work to the correct standard. It’s all about the pipe work and radiators, not the heat pump itself.

Have a look at ‘urban plumbers’ on your tube if you want plenty of examples of heat pumps in Edwardian houses done properly, good SCOP (I.E. 4+) and houses that stay warm.

 

[henry hoov3r]

Have you got a combi already?

 

[CaptainRAVE]

With gas being so cheap and 20 years being so far away, I’d get another boiler.

 

[Shoza]

Environmental impact of replacing perfectly functional boilers + pipe work + radiators is high. ASHP don’t save any money currently so I would hold off until the tech is more developed.

Just worked on a retrofit programme from Manchester City Council with ASHPs in Council properties and they ended up costing the tenants quite a lot more money and homes were less comfortable as heating is slow to work.

 

[Coran]

With gas being so cheap and 20 years being so far away, I’d get another boiler.

I think this is a fair response for all those struggling financially or getting by. I feel households living comfortably should be planning to switch as their boiler nears end of life. There’s a cost but surely we have a duty of care to the planet?

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Environmental impact of replacing perfectly functional boilers + pipe work + radiators is high. ASHP don’t save any money currently so I would hold off until the tech is more developed.

The tech is developed, they haven’t been in houses in other (far colder) countries for decades. It’s a fallacy to think they are going to get cheaper.

The vast majority of the associated cost is everything beyond the heat pump and not the unit itself.

Just worked on a retrofit programme from Manchester City Council with ASHPs in Council properties and they ended up costing the tenants quite a lot more money and homes were less comfortable as heating is slow to work.

If they cost more money and the house was cold, they were not installed correctly and/or owners aren’t using the system correctly. Probably both.

A correctly installed heat pump should fall into neither of those two categories. The issue with them is the tolerance for installer error is far smaller than a gas boiler. Installers actually have to think about what they are doing and can’t just get away with licking a finger, holding it to the wind and slapping in a 30kw combi.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Environmental impact of replacing perfectly functional boilers + pipe work + radiators is high. ASHP don’t save any money currently so I would hold off until the tech is more developed.

Just worked on a retrofit programme from Manchester City Council with ASHPs in Council properties and they ended up costing the tenants quite a lot more money and homes were less comfortable as heating is slow to work.

I agree if you have a decent boiler it would be daft but if you need to buy a new one anyway then it has to be worth at least thinking about imo

I hope our combi boiler still has 10 years of life in it (it's 5 years old with an 8 year warranty) but after that I want to be done with gas...... I don't need to save money to do it and dont mind about increased upfront cost... but hope that over the life of them they break even with gas

 

[henry hoov3r]

I agree if you have a decent boiler it would be daft but if you need to buy a new one anyway then it has to be worth at least thinking about imo

I hope our combi boiler still has 10 years of life in it (it's 5 years old with an 8 year warranty) but after that I want to be done with gas...... I don't need to save money to do it and dont mind about increased upfront cost... but hope that over the life of them they break even with gas

20 years out of a decent combi is definitely possible. My dads Worcester is over 20 and still chugging along.

 

[img]

There seems to be same opinion from the weekly same article in sun thats they dont work. Same as the i swapped back from my electric car ones.

If your house is terribly insulated and leaking heat then its going to be hard whatever you get

 

[fish]

We are going to have a survey done and then see what it’s going to actually cost in terms of upgrades.

 

[bigmike20vt]

There seems to be same opinion from the weekly same article in sun thats they dont work. Same as the i swapped back from my electric car ones.

If your house is terribly insulated and leaking heat then its going to be hard whatever you get

my gut reaction when it comes to anything renewable be it energy or cars is see what the sun says and do the polar opposite

 

[gazref]

The benefit of the new £5k boiler upgrade scheme over the renewable heat incentive scheme is that you get the amount straight away, to put against the installation cost whereas the RHI was over a few years.

I’d strongly recommend looking into an ASHP for most. As a general rule, it will be the single biggest reduction you could make to your CO2 emissions.

In terms of the financial side, the upfront cost will be much higher and the ongoing cost not that much lower. It’s all about introducing a more environmentally friendly way of heating our homes, which it is.

This is a good, factual video explaining heat pumps: https://youtu.be/n3AoUjuBixA?si=ChZ8u8A-Evse3Egj

There's no significant savings over time though because electricity is 300+% cost of gas. That's the element that needs to change to encourage mass adaption. Decrease unit/install costs or tax gas use more.

If you have a modern gas boiler theres no benefit to changing to an ASHP after you factor the cost . If your in a situation where you need to replace the boiler anyway then yeah it's an option because the delta between the 2 allows for ethical decisions that don't hurt the wallet as much

New Gas boiler install 3-3.5k
Ashp after grant 7-8k
Annual savings £100?

 

[fish]

This is why we are thinking of a full ‘sod it’ and get solar panels etc at the same time if electricity is reduced then everything is. We are also in what I imagine to be our long term house I hope but having done a fair few renovations I’m not sure when the itch will resurface…

 

[b0rn2sk8]

The decision making process is very different if you have solar and batteries.

Look at the guys in the solar threads, those with batteries have average electric import cost near the price of gas.

There is also talk of moving the green levies to gas in the long term, it makes no sense it being on electricity as that’s the thing you want people to buy…

 

[Coran]

If you have a modern gas boiler theres no benefit to changing to an ASHP after you factor the cost .

I would say there’s no benefit to changing to an ASHP if you only factor in the cost. If you factor in the impact on the environment, there’s a huge benefit. It uses a third of the natural resources and that third can transition to being renewable over time.

 

[fish]

My thoughts are in general more long term and environmental impact however, there are limits and I will admit that.