Help to Buy Scheme Should Really Be Named Help For Bankers Scheme - Discuss

Not to sound all grandiose about it, but seen as the current 'young' generation are now deemed to likely never be as well off as their parents (mainly due to house prices) it truly could be the end of capitalism as we know it. There was a good piece in the guardian about it. If young people lose the will to strive and better themselves (because its a pointless exercise in the current economy) the whole idea of capitalism is a failure. There's going to be huge social ramifications..

I think Capitalism will end one day (as we know it) but don't see that happening for a while yet. It will end out of necessity, survival of our species I think - greed will have to go.
Surely the kids will at some point inherit their parents property so will some day probably be worth more than their parents were.
There are lots of opportunities for the young generation but they have to go out and get it. Far too many expect to land in their lap these days. Many spend a few years dossing at Uni expecting to have life setup aferwards. DOssing isn't a fair word but it surprises me how little some have to spend at Uni while doing their courses so not entirely the students actually being lazy.
 
If the banks were not helped out in 2007 just maybe capitalism as we know it would have ended and riots would have been on every street corner. I know I would not have taken lightly to my savings being wiped out.

Well, there probably would have been a high likelihood of civil unrest. However, my objection is that the money lenders were given public funds, taking from the very people who they charge interest to and live off on a daily basis. People were being made to support institutions that were already parasitic on their lives. This was the first time that creditors have been bailed out by public funds. Creditors are supposed to assess risk before lending, that's their business, and that's why they get to charge people for a loan. If they get the risk wrong, then that's just tough. People should not be made to support other people that feed off them. That's crony capitalism, and that's what we now have. This is also why we have an increasingly inequal society. I am getting a bit sick of it.
 
Yup agree with the op, pretty much all west policies since 2006/7 have been to help bankers at the exclusion of everybody else.
 
Surely the kids will at some point inherit their parents property so will some day probably be worth more than their parents were.

People are living longer so by the time you receive it you will likely have retired and by then it's too late, your quality of life during your prime has already suffered. Unless of course you get it before they pass.

Then let's say you have 1 property split between 3 kids. There is a £325K tax free amount per parent, everything above that gets taxed (the majority usually at 40%).

So nope that doesn't guarantee they will be worth more any way at all, they could be forced to sell the home to pay the tax bill.
 
I've got a few properties which I rent out, (12) they were wrecks when I bought them and they are all completely refurbished to a high standard. I'm a builder.

I want to sell them as it was always a short term venture. I approached every tenant and offered to pay their 5% deposit along with back up from the help to buy scheme. I bought the properties mid crash at extremely good prices with no competition with as much as 50% off pre crash prices which enables me to be able to offer this.

Not one took me up on the offer.

It's not the landlords fault at all.

Why not simply stick them all up on the market @ 5% less than what they are valued at?

I take it they were overpriced from realistic market value?
 
My sisters place in SW London has gone up from £210K to £440K in 3 years....
My mums in NE London bought for 13k in 1972 is now £330K

Something has to give way or be made to give way. Political suicide or not someone needs to take responsibility.

It is crazy down here (South West) - though we've increased faster than the national average though due to development of the area - houses that not that long ago were worth 150K are selling in the mid 400K - though most of my (former) neighbours have taken them off the market as they are largely covering the mortgage on another place via renting out the old place - average rents in the area have jumped from <£500/m to over £1000/m :S
 
Well, there probably would have been a high likelihood of civil unrest. However, my objection is that the money lenders were given public funds, taking from the very people who they charge interest to and live off on a daily basis. People were being made to support institutions that were already parasitic on their lives. This was the first time that creditors have been bailed out by public funds. Creditors are supposed to assess risk before lending, that's their business, and that's why they get to charge people for a loan. If they get the risk wrong, then that's just tough. People should not be made to support other people that feed off them. That's crony capitalism, and that's what we now have. This is also why we have an increasingly inequal society. I am getting a bit sick of it.

I don't disagree with you but what else could we do if not give them public money? People would have lost their savings but what about their mortgages? Tax on profits from mortgage payments helps the world go around. Would borrowers not have had to pay back their mortgages if the lenders went bust? Or maybe because the properties were not owned they would have become property of HMRC to auction off? We did the right thing but looking foward we do need to ensure it NEVER happens again.
However, the question that has to be asked and we probably don't know the answer to his why did the lenders take bigger risks than they used to? What fuelled it? Banker greed? House prices rocketing? I think the banks just got ultra competitive with each other which ended up in a spiral leading to money being lent to people who might not be able to afford to pay it back. Self certification, lending more than 5x earnings, 100% mortgages (or in some cases 125%+). As banking is central to society as we know it today, maybe the government should have been looking closely at it? I think a lot of people knew it was coming but didn't want to do anything about it.It was a huge debt bubble but until it burst the good times were still rolling......and labour were in government who seemed to love giving money away too - ha ha ha :D.

Soon enough it will probably all happen again I'm sure, as it has it the past, maybe not banks going bust (or nearly) but the markets will crash
 
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The original post here is so misguided and wildly inaccurate.

House prices in the UK are a function of one thing and one thing only - A Lack of supply.

Frankly, banks absolutely HATE making mortgage loans. They are low yielding, and typically lock them into significant interest rate risk that they don't want. Throw on top of that regulators running their mouths about risk weightings for BTL and banks really don't want anything to do with the sector.

The only reason banks in this country keep mortgage loans on their book is because there is no Fannie or Freddie Mae like in the U.S, and they pretty much have to do them just to get the deposit account (which isn't all that valuable in the UK either for a whole bunch of other reasons)
 
House prices in the UK are a function of one thing and one thing only - A Lack of supply.
Sorry but that's a load of nonsense.

It's a false market propped up by a number of methods of banks, estate agents, and government doing. All of which have been detailed by people in this thread. Believing it is simply 'lack of supply' is being sold a massive dummy.

HTB, RTB, part-buy schemes, unwillingness to fix the rental sector, BTL tax breaks, marketing overseas, council tax discounts, baby boomer NIMBYs, the list goes on and on and on...

Believing its simply lack of supply means you have been duped my friend.
 
Scam, you language on here buddy is very telling. I like your passion but it comes across that you have a major chip on your shoulder due to perhaps one or a combination of a few reasons.

1)You rent and you would sooner have bought.
2)Your landlord(s) has caused you issues in the past (hence the whole BTL landlords need to go bankrupt and die etc).
3)Or these have happened to a close friend or family member.
 
House prices in the UK are a function of one thing and one thing only - A Lack of supply.

I think that is only one thing of many. Brits have a fascination with owning property. Too many people on a small Island(ties in with lack of supply). The much needed lower interest rates needed to keep the wheels turning has made it affordable to continue to borrow. As so much money is tied up in property, nobody wants another crash either so various things are done to encourage demand in home ownership.
 
I think that is only one thing of many. Brits have a fascination with owning property.

In many instances, renting is just as expensive as buying. Rental costs are broadly aligned with what mortgage repayments would be for a given property ; it would not make financial sense for a landlord to let a property for less than their mortgage repayments.

Home ownership is seen as the preferred tenure type in this country due to lack of regulation in the private rental sector, unscrupulous estate agents who charge exorbitant fees, relatively insecure tenure, and ultimately the fact that the rent you are paying is effectively paying off someone else's mortgage repayments.

In contrast, in countries like Germany, the rental market is somewhat different. Rents are far more reasonable in relation to wages, rent controls are in place (limit rent prices/increases), they have a more elastic housing supply thanks to a more liberal planning system, longer term tenancies, and institutional landlords (far preferable to renting from the shower of amateur "Mom & Pop" landlords we get in this country ).

Too many people on a small Island(ties in with lack of supply).

The argument about a lack of land is misguided at best. Less than 10% of the land mass of this country is actually developed, with less than 3% of land actually built on.

We have an artificially induced supply side shortage, caused by an outdated and over restrictive planning system. The existing legislation was devised in an era when the state was building hundreds of thousands of council houses per year, and there was less reliance on private construction. This has seen little change since it's inception, bar the pretty much wholesale abolition of council house construction.

Although supply is a contributory factor to the housing affordability issue, it is the amount of credit and money being thrown at housing which has by far been the biggest contributor the current affordability crisis.

To list a few factors which have driven house prices to their current levels ; Introduction of Buy-to-Let mortgages (1996), Removal of House Prices from RPI (1997), Abolition of tax relief on share dividends (made final salary pensions unviable, 1997), deregulation of the banking sector (late 90s/early 2000s). Additionally, up until recently, housing benefit was setting a false floor the local rental markets, though this has been tacked by the current government.

The property markets did correct after 2007 or have people already forgotten that? In most of the country properties were something like 20-30% lower for a while, if you could find a buyer at all. IMO it's only the last few years property prices have recovered significantly.

The property market has not corrected properly. In order to do so, prices would have had to reduce by at least 50%, having increased by over 120% over the course of 1997-2007. Due to Quantitative Easing, dropping the base rate down to 0.5%, and various other financial instruments, this has not been the case.

Ideally, it would have been good if house prices could have declined very slowly or remained relatively static over the course of a decade or so. This would have allowed wages to catch up, without putting those who who had bought homes at boom prices into negative equity.

This was what was happening between 2010 and 2013, at which point the Conservative government cynically introduced Help to Buy. A scheme marketed as being designed to help First Time Buyers, whereas the true aim of the scheme has been to help everyone else at the cost of First Time Buyers . Further reading on this and what it truly aimed to set out can can be found in my post here.


The government is currently reliant upon house price inflation to skew economic indicators in a favourable manner in what would otherwise be a stagnant economy. It increases money supply, and significantly the wealth of a significant proportion of the voting demographic, mainly older people, who are more likely to vote or release equity from their homes. It also positively impacts GDP; House prices and rents are both included in GDP. Even imputed rents for home owners (what a home owner would be paying in rent to live in their house) are included.
 
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Hax, regarding rental prices in Germany being more reasonable in comparison to wages, but are houses cheaper too?
Landlords in the UK have to buy already expensive property to begin with. And a landlord not only has to pay the mortgage remember, they also have to pay any services charges, land rent and of course keep the property in a good state of repair - none of which comes cheap. DUring any void periods they also have to pay council tax and of course still pay the mortgage.

I must admit I rent out two properties. The less lucrative place is a two bed flat. The place is worth about £180k if I'm lucky. I get £725 a month rent but take away 10% (or 12% inc vat) for the letting agent. The mortgage on a good 2 year fixed term still costs me £363 a month which I believe will rise to about £500 a month after the fixed term.The mortgage is £110k(so not massive in comparison to the value). Maintenance is £38 a month but occasionally I have to pay a large cost when expensive repairs need to be carried out. Recently lots of things have been going wrong which I personally am putting down to careless tenants but regardless I have got everything fixed to keep them happy. I don't make much out of it to be honest , not considering the hassle/risks. Obviously if it goes up in value it will be good but there;s no guarantee of that either.The more lucrative place I have held for a very long term so believe I deserve it - still doesn tmake a massive amount of money though and a few years ago I had to pay for repairs that cost 2 years rent. Being a landlord is not as easy as some think. Oh and I treat my tenants well and kinda fell into it - couldn't be bothered to sell the first place(too busy with work) and couldn't sell the second(bad market conditions of only a few years ago) so rented that out too. I don't believe for the majority of landlords are raking it in at the expense of others.

I don't agree prices should have declined 50%. I get where you are coming from though(prices were supported), but if the property market had declined/been allowed to decline that much that also could have had dire consequences for society. Lets just say, if nobody had a job then even a 50% drop in house prices would have left them unaffordable to most people still. The bigger picture would be very different than how many imagine it. The banks would have been in an even worse situation too.
 
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Hax, regarding rental prices in Germany being more reasonable in comparison to wages, but are houses cheaper too?
Landlords in the UK have to buy already expensive property to begin with. And a landlord not only has to pay the mortgage remember, they also have to pay any services charges, land rent and of course keep the property in a good state of repair - none of which comes cheap. DUring any void periods they also have to pay council tax and of course still pay the mortgage.

I must admit I rent out two properties. The less lucrative place is a two bed flat. The place is worth about £180k if I'm lucky. I get £725 a month rent but take away 10% (or 12% inc vat) for the letting agent. The mortgage on a good 2 year fixed term still costs me £363 a month which I believe will rise to about £500 a month after the fixed term.The mortgage is £110k(so not massive in comparison to the value). Maintenance is £38 a month but occasionally I have to pay a large cost when expensive repairs need to be carried out. Recently lots of things have been going wrong which I personally am putting down to careless tenants but regardless I have got everything fixed to keep them happy. I don't make much out of it to be honest , not considering the hassle/risks. Obviously if it goes up in value it will be good but there;s no guarantee of that either.The more lucrative place I have held for a very long term so believe I deserve it - still doesn tmake a massive amount of money though and a few years ago I had to pay for repairs that cost 2 years rent. Being a landlord is not as easy as some think. Oh and I treat my tenants well and kinda fell into it - couldn't be bothered to sell the first place(too busy with work) and couldn't sell the second(bad market conditions of only a few years ago) so rented that out too. I don't believe for the majority of landlords are raking it in at the expense of others.

I don't agree prices should have declined 50%. I get where you are coming from though(prices were supported), but if the property market had declined/been allowed to decline that much that also could have had dire consequences for society. Lets just say, if nobody had a job then even a 50% drop in house prices would have left them unaffordable to most people still. The bigger picture would be very different than how many imagine it. The banks would have been in an even worse situation too.

When you say you don't earn much out of it. If it pays the mortgage you are getting free equity...how is that not earning something?

The person renting it gets literally nothing other than short term shelter but even with things going wrong that need fixing you are still effectively owning the house for free..
 
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