Help with a routine

This argument could go on forever, and no ones ever going to win. I'll just say if it works for you and all is going well, then go for it. Split works for me so that's what I'll use.

I could argue all day but there is no point, I'll agree to disagree here as in the end we're both winners, we're doing something we love and getting the results we crave.
 
There isn't an argument, just you stating that one is better and me disagreeing. Neither is 'better' they're just different approaches with their own pros and cons. I do both, always have, always will.
 
I think BOTH work. I jump from one to the other and reap the benefits :)

I will say this about what I've learned. Full body workouts take a lot more out of me if I want to get using some big poundages. Also unless I've got my diet nailed then I'll struggle more with the full body workouts than the split routines.

If I know I can give my training everything I have, then I use full body workouts 3 times a week in the form of the HST program. This means no boozing, top notch diet and no skipping sessions for any reason.

If I'm going to be busy at work and likely to miss days, or I know there's some big nights out planned or whatever then I'll move over to split routines.... they're much more forgiving.
 
S7yl3s said:
Bringing up someone like Coleman isn't pointless becuase 1) Who's to say you haven't got incredible genetics and are only getting big off a full body because of that? 2) He does take a large number of drugs yes, but he does his routine for a reason, becuase it gives him the absoloute best results. He knows how everything works and he wouldn't be where he is today without a proper workout. The steroids mean nothing unless the workout is worthwhile.

Fair play if you lift for strength and explosiveness, but you're still going to be hugely misbalanced with your muscle growth. As I said before if it works for you then it works for you, but don't come crying on here when you develop problems down the line.

EDIT: I feel that I should add that I'm not having a personal dig at yourself, simply arguing a point that I believe you will be unbalanced.
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Why would I come crying on here? I was lifting years before I ever saw this forum, since I have been about 15 that is. I have never had any problems with the routine I use at all in 7 years, nor do lots of athletes who use routines based around similar lifts. The only thing I have noticed is I am a hell of a lot bigger, quicker and stronger.

If you think big compound lifts, things like weighted chins, jump squats and plyometrics are going to cause me problems down the line, then....... fair enough, we will agree to disagree. Just out of curiosity though, would you mind telling me why you think I will become unbalanced, and what exactly you mean by that?
 
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I think you're going to suffer joint problems down the line. I was talking about your knees, I believe they are going to suffer badly down the line because of the main movements you've pointed out in your previous posts.

Would you be able to post your routine here I'd be interested to read it in full with reps and sets.

This is one of the reasons I love BB so much, there are so many variations and so many paths to success. I don't think anything can be debated as much as BB as everyone is different and people are always going to be rooting for what worked for them.
 
Monday :

Deadlift, 2 to 4 reps, 8 sets
Squat (sometime split squats), 2 to 4 reps, 8 sets
Bench press, 1 to 3 reps, 8 sets
Overhead press, 1 to 3 reps, 6 sets

Wednesday :

Various olympic lifts, 4 to 5 reps, 6 to 8 sets
Box squats / jump squats 4 to 5 reps, 8 sets
speed benching, 4 reps, 6 sets
weighted box jumps, 5 reps, 6 sets
weighted chins

Friday :

Mainly plyometrics, with some more explosive lifting thrown in, various bodyweight exercises, sprints etc.

This is not really set, as my routine is largely is based around whether I am trying to increase my strength, or speed, so it varies quite a bit. At the moment I am trng to get faster, which is the reason for all the plyometics and olympic lifting.

Anyway, I was always told squats and lifting in general will increase bone density (although polynesians are supposed to have dense bones anyway) and increase joint strength. Is that not true? :confused:
 
Absolutely True, but not if you've got an imbalance between your quads and your hams. This will cause knee problems at a later stage. I don't ever claim to be the worlds biggest expert but it really looks to me as if you will develop this imbalance. Hat off to you if you don't, I'm simply offering a warning to protect against injury.

I've spoken to an acquaintance, who is a professional bodybuilder, and a very good one at that. These are his opinions on this. He has many many years of experience by the way and has a tremendous knowledge of BB.

'A lot of us were taught to train that way back in the 60's. We did a full body workout 3 x a week. We gained on programs like that but we were kids and newbies, so any program that didn't injure us would stimulate some progress. For the intermediate to advanced lifter, programs like this have very limited applications, such as severe time constraints or coming back from a long layoff, perhaps due to injury. When you've been at this a while, the muscles need more stimulation than you can get in a few sets... even if the sets are intense enough to do any good, the last body parts worked will suffer due to the overall deficit of energy, physical and mental.'
 
S7yl3s said:
Absolutely True, but not if you've got an imbalance between your quads and your hams. This will cause knee problems at a later stage. I don't ever claim to be the worlds biggest expert but it really looks to me as if you will develop this imbalance. Hat off to you if you don't, I'm simply offering a warning to protect against injury.

I've spoken to an acquaintance, who is a professional bodybuilder, and a very good one at that. These are his opinions on this. He has many many years of experience by the way and has a tremendous knowledge of BB.

'A lot of us were taught to train that way back in the 60's. We did a full body workout 3 x a week. We gained on programs like that but we were kids and newbies, so any program that didn't injure us would stimulate some progress. For the intermediate to advanced lifter, programs like this have very limited applications, such as severe time constraints or coming back from a long layoff, perhaps due to injury. When you've been at this a while, the muscles need more stimulation than you can get in a few sets... even if the sets are intense enough to do any good, the last body parts worked will suffer due to the overall deficit of energy, physical and mental.'
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Cheers for the info mate, it's always good to have more knowledge on things :cool:

I will look into it more to see if I need to make any changes.
 
Hamstring injuries are very common in people who have an imbalance in their upper leg muscle strength. When the front thigh muscles, the quadriceps, are stronger than the hamstring tendons and muscles in the back of the thigh, there is risk for a hamstring injury. This makes them hard to rehabilitate after injury.
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This happened to Michael Owen and Ryan Giggs in particular.


I think lots of people ignore hamstrings - I'm guilty of this too because I can only fit in one type of deadlift and I prefer bent legged.

Some glute-ham raises will do the business, one of the hardest exercises there is, I just about manged one rep on my first attempt at them and my big-squatting mate was in shock as it took him weeks to build up to one.
 
Depth said:
Cheers for the info mate, it's always good to have more knowledge on things :cool:

I will look into it more to see if I need to make any changes.
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Anytime :) If it would help you, I could ask the chap and infact, I could ask his mate too, who is probably the smartest BB I have ever met what they think of it? I'll leave it up to you, but if you need any help just ask.

Best of luck with your training either way, we've had an excellent debate today and I think we've both learned something.
 
S7yl3s said:
Anytime :) If it would help you, I could ask the chap and infact, I could ask his mate too, who is probably the smartest BB I have ever met what they think of it? I'll leave it up to you, but if you need any help just ask.

Best of luck with your training either way, we've had an excellent debate today and I think we've both learned something.
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Cheers, and yeah if you could ask at some point it would me much appreciated :)
 
Goatboy said:
Some glute-ham raises will do the business, one of the hardest exercises there is, I just about manged one rep on my first attempt at them and my big-squatting mate was in shock as it took him weeks to build up to one.
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Quite possibly the hardest exercise I've ever tried... I couldn't even do 1 real rep! :o :eek:
 
ethos said:
Some good links here regarding full body vs split:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1333967

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1335480

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1361916
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An inteteresting qoute from that first article:

"Splits are for advanced bodybuilders. I can't think of another group who would greatly benefit from a body part split. The reason is because bodybuilders don't need athleticism to win a competition.

With regard to athleticism, intelligent MMA fighters, for example, don't use body part splits because those who follow splits incur more sport injuries when they leave the weightroom to fight. That's a fact that I've seen for the last ten years. I've seen more sport injuries with body part splits than any other type of training. The reason is because body part splits are often arranged without respect for biomechanics. "
 
:rolleyes: I could dig up article after article on the web about this, but at the end of the day It's simply that persons point of view there is very little if any fact in any of these. And all MMA fighters do not use all body workouts, a number of them train with split routines.

Looks like the chap writing the article hasn't done any research he's just trying to make us think what he thinks. Saying that splits are simply for advanced bodybuilders is a stupid thing to say, becuase that simply isn't true.
 
S7yl3s said:
:rolleyes: I could dig up article after article on the web about this, but at the end of the day It's simply that persons point of view there is very little if any fact in any of these. And all MMA fighters do not use all body workouts, a number of them train with split routines.

Looks like the chap writing the article hasn't done any research he's just trying to make us think what he thinks. Saying that splits are simply for advanced bodybuilders is a stupid thing to say, becuase that simply isn't true.
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totally agree :)
 
S7yl3s said:
:rolleyes: I could dig up article after article on the web about this, but at the end of the day It's simply that persons point of view there is very little if any fact in any of these. And all MMA fighters do not use all body workouts, a number of them train with split routines.

Looks like the chap writing the article hasn't done any research he's just trying to make us think what he thinks. Saying that splits are simply for advanced bodybuilders is a stupid thing to say, becuase that simply isn't true.
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Maybe you should actually read up on the guys that are in these articles. I can guarantee they know a WHOLE lot more than you and there opinions are based on years of training / study etc...

No research, you couldn't be more wrong.
 
ethos said:
Maybe you should actually read up on the guys that are in these articles. I can guarantee they know a WHOLE lot more than you and there opinions are based on years of training / study etc...

No research, you couldn't be more wrong.
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LOL, you GUARENTEE they know a whole lot more than me? :rolleyes:

You've posted something that's unfounded, live with it. Yes their OPINIONS are based on years of training and study. But so are the OPINIONS of the chaps who train in every other way that's possible. I could sit down and write you a paper as to why beef sausages taste better than pork sausages, then I could invite someone along to back me up maybe play devils advocate. At the end of the day it means absoloutly nothing, a full body routine could work for Mr A but for Mr B it could be a pointless endevour. Mr B could respond to a split.

It's a shame to see people sucked into these articles, they're obviously written well enough to convince some people :rolleyes:

Really, Just find something that works for you and keep it up. Don't sit online and read something some other bloke says...what the hell is that point in that? Go out and do it yourself, that's where my knowledge comes from, not sitting in front of a computer screen becoming the next keyboard Arnold.

Now please, remember to think before insulting peoples intelligence and knowledge in your next wise post.
 
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