Help with Garage Conversion TV & Sound

thisisthecount

thisisthecount

thisisthecount

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Peterborough
I could really do with any advice, as I'm getting a bit stressed about it now.

So, a decision has been made to just fill the room with adequate sound for the occasional movie on an 85" TV.

I'm going to go for a budget 85" of around £1500, and hopefully I will find something I will be happy with.
Soundbar-wise too, I'm thinking around the £600 mark if that's possible, but with a separate Bluetooth base in the corner?

I think I am considering something simple and cost-effective. I don't have the possibility of putting a shelf for a sound bar under the TV as I want the 85" TV to rotate towards either the left or right on a really slim strong bracket which I am yet to find anything suitable which pushes back slim enough - any ideas?
The soundbar needs to pack a "bit" of punch

(I can use headphones for the treadmill but how would I connect Bluetooth IF watching from the firestick on the TV? ), but I've never purchased one before.

I'm at first fix with the builders for another couple of days, so I could, in theory, plug in a power cable and an optical cable too, for sure. I think that would be sufficient.
Can a sound bar be installed and "does" it need to rotate with the TV? OR simply leaving it in situ against the wall is good enough?

I need to find a good enough soundbar where I could;

Bluetooth from a phone Select optical so the TV comes through it?
Amazon Firestick hopefully can play through the sound bar?


Thanks for any advice
 
I wouldn't use Optical between the TV and sound bar for a few reasons.
  1. Although it still does a good job sound-wise, as a standard, it is being phased out. HDMI (with the ARC or later eARC feature) is where things are heading. If in 5-7 years you come to change either the TV or sound bar then it's likely that your product choices will be very much more limited if Optical is the only connection provisioned for in your installation. Some may respond that there are optical to HDMI ARC audio extractors - and they'd be completely correct. But it's not an elegant solution when you can just go straight for ARC/eARC with the HDMI connection
  2. Your system and needs appear to be quite simple. There's not a tonne of extra hardware sources or a complex AV pre-amp/power-amp set-up, so why not benefit from the hardware control that HDMI provides? Turn your TV on and your sound bar comes on. Change the volume with the TV remote or any set-top box such as Virgin / Sky / Freeview PVR where the remote is programmed to work the telly remote and you'll find that the sound bar changes. What's more, you won't need to mute or turn down the TV speakers. They'll automatically silence because sound is redirected to the sound bar. Finish your gym session or movie night, and one power button for the TV turns everything else off
  3. HDMI ARC (and eARC) supports Dolby Atmos. Optical does not. With a £600 sound bar budget, you're going to come across a large proportion of sound bars that include Atmos upfiring speakers. You'll be curious. but with optical you'll have no opportunity to explore this
Standards change. Trying to second-guess what might be coming in the next 5-10 years is a waste of time. Trying to cable for standards that aren't here yet is a complete fools errand. By the same token, installing some cable now that's already a fading standard isn't a great plan either. The best you can do is install for what's foreseeable (HDMI ARC and, more so, eARC), then have a plan to make cable changing easier in the future.

ARC and eARC doesn't need anything fancy from the cable. For a 3-5m lead something from Amazon's Basics range will do just fine. It's only carrying audio, not 4K or 8K video, and so £7~£10 will kill it.

What you should do though us have the spark install some conduit in-wall. A piece of 38mmx25mm Mini Trunking will allow you to pull a new HDMI-sized plug end through without too much trouble. Have the spark finish the upper and lower faceplate positions with brush plates. These are like the bristles on the draught-excluder on some letterboxes. This will allow you to hide some surplus cable in-wall, and also give you a much flusher finish than a plug end with cable tail sticking out at 90 degrees from some HDMI wall socket because it 'looks neat' but ends-up being impractical.

BT Headphones: You'll connect these to the TV. Something to be aware of those is the features of the TV. When you buy a huge TV at the lower end of the 85" price range you'll need to doublecheck that all the specs important to you are covered. This includes having a TV that can act as a BT transmitter. In an ideal world you'll have the options to choose if the TV is a BT receiver or transmitter, and then when it's a transmitter, whether the sound goes just to BT or to the sound bar too.

"The soundbar needs to pack a "bit" of punch" - I understand what you're getting at, but it doesn't really mean much in a quantitative sense. The sound bar wattage figures won't help you much either. Much of what's claimed is a work of fiction. You'll probably need to listen to some sound bars playing at the sort of level you anticipate using and in a size of room as big or bigger than the one you plan. You need to hear if the sound hardens as the volume increases. If it does, then the amps are struggling. Change model.

Sound bar rotating or staying as-is: Sound does spread. You can sit off axis to a degree. How much though depends on the size and shape of the room, and where the gear is installed relative yo where you want to be. Put some dimensions and angles down and we can advise better from there.

Your Amazon Fire TV stick doesn't need to be connected to the sound bar. Plug it into the TV. Let the TV deal with pictures in up to 4K res with Dolby Vision and yadda yada yadda. Let the TV pass audio to the sound bar via HDMI ARC. It will be sending stereo PCM (with/without Dolby Stereo Surround), Dolby Digital in all of the channel variants from mono (1.0) through to 5.1 with or without Atmos. DD+ /DDplus is 5.1DD with Atmos enhancement. That's as good as it gets from a Fire TV or any streaming stick/box at the moment with the main streaming services. There is talk of the Marvel films getting DTS, but last time I checked there was still nothing better than DD+.

Bluetooth to the sound bar: That's a pretty standard feature now, and it won't be affected by the TV sending BT to your headphones.
 
Yeah I agree with hornetstinger. How big is the garage? Get the tv sorted first then build up your audio system. Use ebay for some cheap avr (I recommend yamaha) denon's and Onkyo's are a plentiful. Look out for a good sub and center. Monitor audio bonze has some lowish resale value. I got silvers for front and center with a crossover at 60hz and love them.
 
sg0 said:
Yeah I agree with hornetstinger. How big is the garage? Get the tv sorted first then build up your audio system. Use ebay for some cheap avr (I recommend yamaha) denon's and Onkyo's are a plentiful. Look out for a good sub and center. Monitor audio bonze has some lowish resale value. I got silvers for front and center with a crossover at 60hz and love them.
Click to expand...
@sg0 its only about 5mx5m
 
lucid said:
I wouldn't use Optical between the TV and sound bar for a few reasons.
  1. Although it still does a good job sound-wise, as a standard, it is being phased out. HDMI (with the ARC or later eARC feature) is where things are heading. If in 5-7 years you come to change either the TV or sound bar then it's likely that your product choices will be very much more limited if Optical is the only connection provisioned for in your installation. Some may respond that there are optical to HDMI ARC audio extractors - and they'd be completely correct. But it's not an elegant solution when you can just go straight for ARC/eARC with the HDMI connection
  2. Your system and needs appear to be quite simple. There's not a tonne of extra hardware sources or a complex AV pre-amp/power-amp set-up, so why not benefit from the hardware control that HDMI provides? Turn your TV on and your sound bar comes on. Change the volume with the TV remote or any set-top box such as Virgin / Sky / Freeview PVR where the remote is programmed to work the telly remote and you'll find that the sound bar changes. What's more, you won't need to mute or turn down the TV speakers. They'll automatically silence because sound is redirected to the sound bar. Finish your gym session or movie night, and one power button for the TV turns everything else off
  3. HDMI ARC (and eARC) supports Dolby Atmos. Optical does not. With a £600 sound bar budget, you're going to come across a large proportion of sound bars that include Atmos upfiring speakers. You'll be curious. but with optical you'll have no opportunity to explore this
Standards change. Trying to second-guess what might be coming in the next 5-10 years is a waste of time. Trying to cable for standards that aren't here yet is a complete fools errand. By the same token, installing some cable now that's already a fading standard isn't a great plan either. The best you can do is install for what's foreseeable (HDMI ARC and, more so, eARC), then have a plan to make cable changing easier in the future.

ARC and eARC doesn't need anything fancy from the cable. For a 3-5m lead something from Amazon's Basics range will do just fine. It's only carrying audio, not 4K or 8K video, and so £7~£10 will kill it.

What you should do though us have the spark install some conduit in-wall. A piece of 38mmx25mm Mini Trunking will allow you to pull a new HDMI-sized plug end through without too much trouble. Have the spark finish the upper and lower faceplate positions with brush plates. These are like the bristles on the draught-excluder on some letterboxes. This will allow you to hide some surplus cable in-wall, and also give you a much flusher finish than a plug end with cable tail sticking out at 90 degrees from some HDMI wall socket because it 'looks neat' but ends-up being impractical.

BT Headphones: You'll connect these to the TV. Something to be aware of those is the features of the TV. When you buy a huge TV at the lower end of the 85" price range you'll need to doublecheck that all the specs important to you are covered. This includes having a TV that can act as a BT transmitter. In an ideal world you'll have the options to choose if the TV is a BT receiver or transmitter, and then when it's a transmitter, whether the sound goes just to BT or to the sound bar too.

"The soundbar needs to pack a "bit" of punch" - I understand what you're getting at, but it doesn't really mean much in a quantitative sense. The sound bar wattage figures won't help you much either. Much of what's claimed is a work of fiction. You'll probably need to listen to some sound bars playing at the sort of level you anticipate using and in a size of room as big or bigger than the one you plan. You need to hear if the sound hardens as the volume increases. If it does, then the amps are struggling. Change model.

Sound bar rotating or staying as-is: Sound does spread. You can sit off axis to a degree. How much though depends on the size and shape of the room, and where the gear is installed relative yo where you want to be. Put some dimensions and angles down and we can advise better from there.

Your Amazon Fire TV stick doesn't need to be connected to the sound bar. Plug it into the TV. Let the TV deal with pictures in up to 4K res with Dolby Vision and yadda yada yadda. Let the TV pass audio to the sound bar via HDMI ARC. It will be sending stereo PCM (with/without Dolby Stereo Surround), Dolby Digital in all of the channel variants from mono (1.0) through to 5.1 with or without Atmos. DD+ /DDplus is 5.1DD with Atmos enhancement. That's as good as it gets from a Fire TV or any streaming stick/box at the moment with the main streaming services. There is talk of the Marvel films getting DTS, but last time I checked there was still nothing better than DD+.

Bluetooth to the sound bar: That's a pretty standard feature now, and it won't be affected by the TV sending BT to your headphones.
Click to expand...
thanks @lucid
Thanks a lot for your guidance here, some of it I totally get.

Just so I am thinking straight here, I think I’m going to run a HDMI 2.1 cable then, maybe a micro HDMI 2.1 as I noticed one of the Samsung soundbars seems to have this in the back of it.

So, I’m thinking these are a good price for what I could get - it’s only a 5m x 5m room?

Right now, the builder is pressuring me so I know where the HDMI cable and power cable needs to go for the soundbar as I’d be mounding it on the wall and don’t want to see any holes behind it, so positioning is key if that makes sense.


The 85 will just go straight now, I’ve decided and agree that the room isn’t big enough to warrant being able to rotate it I think. Same with the bar. The Samsung S800B looks very nice and slim and will look better underneath the screen, as the Samsung Q930B seems to look more like a shelf as its a lot deeper? But would you say its way less inferior than the Q930B?

I could research forever but the pressure is based on having to commit to where the holes are behind the soundbar and each soundbar will have its sound/power ports so I guess by narrowing down to these two with yours or others’ recommendations then it might help?

You mention HDMI (with the ARC or later eARC feature - what should I be checking when doing a final check on these and an 85” TV to make sure

Guess these should be sufficient?

(These both seem to state and mention a couple of things you said I should future-proof or “current proof - Dolby Atmos DTS + HDMI eARC” )

(any 2.1 hdmi cable right? - don’t have to be specific )

Samsung Q930B - £630

https://amzn.eu/d/fvENE53

Or the

Samsung S800B All In One Soundbar? £369

https://amzn.eu/d/4mVgHAO

It seems like the slim one is so cheap?

Won’t it be good enough to

You mentioned “38mmx25mm Mini Trunking” nothing will be visible so I’m struggling with this - I guess there might be something flexible and maybe use a rod-type solution.
 
www.avforums.com

For Sale - 4x Dali Spektor 1s and 1x Dali Zensor Pico Vokal

Hi I'm selling the below 5 speakers which were used through a Denon x3400h in an atmos 5.1.2 system. I'm keeping the sub and biking speakers. The Pico vokal was used as the centre and was wall mounted below the TV. 2 of the Spektor 1s we're wall mounted next to the TV, please see rubber...
www.avforums.com www.avforums.com

Don't waste your time and money on a soundbar. They're ok for bedroom not main cinema room
 
Some speakers for sale.

www.avforums.com

For Sale - Dali Spektor 1

In white. These are brand new boxed, never used. Comes with wall mount brackets in the box. Surplus to requirements as I bought two pairs. I was going to use one pair for Atmos but no longer going to upgrade to Atmos.
www.avforums.com www.avforums.com

Little bit small but what you could do is use them for mains now, then later on as you upgrade move them to Atmos heights. Or you may reuse them elseware like in a bedroom or PC system.
 
I’m not clear whether this is a dedicated cinema room or a gym/other space.

I’d buy some half decent 100% copper speaker cable and run it around the room at the same time as your first fix. Also get your HDMI and trunking in at the same time as suggested by @lucid. Having the option of a surround sound system would be great and would be a shame not to take the opportunity for the sake of a roll of cable. You don’t have to use it and could easily plaster over the cable if you decide not to (run it into back boxes so it’s easier to find).
 
hornetstinger said:
www.avforums.com

For Sale - 4x Dali Spektor 1s and 1x Dali Zensor Pico Vokal

Hi I'm selling the below 5 speakers which were used through a Denon x3400h in an atmos 5.1.2 system. I'm keeping the sub and biking speakers. The Pico vokal was used as the centre and was wall mounted below the TV. 2 of the Spektor 1s we're wall mounted next to the TV, please see rubber...
www.avforums.com www.avforums.com

Don't waste your time and money on a soundbar. They're ok for bedroom not main cinema room
Click to expand...
Good idea for some, for me I just want something mediocre, simple instal, no more extra cabling etc etc
tom_nieto said:
I’m not clear whether this is a dedicated cinema room or a gym/other space.

I’d buy some half decent 100% copper speaker cable and run it around the room at the same time as your first fix. Also get your HDMI and trunking in at the same time as suggested by @lucid. Having the option of a surround sound system would be great and would be a shame not to take the opportunity for the sake of a roll of cable. You don’t have to use it and could easily plaster over the cable if you decide not to (run it into back boxes so it’s easier to find).
Click to expand...
hi there, thanks

It’s really a hybrid - gym but with a cinema sometimes when the kids have friends over. Nothing major though.

What cabling would you say and what runs do you think as I have not done this before. Would you say one in each 4 corners next to the power sockets?
 
Ideally you’d run the speaker cable to wherever you’d position the surround speakers in the room. I only ended up using the four corners in our extension and it works really well as we mostly use it for music rather than movies as it turns out. The additional cost of the wire over the first fix electrics was hardly anything and I terminated the cables myself (dead easy to do with speaker wire).

A sound bar would have course be fine and probably be the easiest plug and play solution, but depends on what you eventually want to achieve.

I’m summary - choose a potential position for a multichannel amp and source (out the way and with a power socket). Run speaker cables around the room from that point. Ideally you’d run trunking and possibly HDMI between there and the TV point as well.
 
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hornetstinger said:
Best to have a listen first on soundbar and just how bad they are.
Click to expand...
Unless @thisisthecount already has a good surround or stereo system in the house, or at least some well remembered experience of either, then how could he be expected to judge how good/bad/mediocre a sound bar is in comparison?

You've got a good Atmos system, so for you it's easy to pick out where a sound bar falls short. I work with this gear, so have a broad range of experience, and so for me it's easy too, but I'm also pragmatic in the sense that a customer or forum member will choose what's right for their needs and budget. Even allowing for a bit of man maths, if the sound bar ticks more boxes then it'll do.

From the look of it the key things here are some better sound than the TV speakers for when running on a treadmill or working out with weights, and something to keep the kids happy when their watching a film or perhaps gaming. This is a multipurpose room. It's not a dedicated cinema.
 
@thisisthecount Have a look at the sound bar reviews at the rtings web site LINK They are comprehensive and give useful short summary comparisons between the most likely choices at similar price points. It's worth spending a bit of time noodling through and drilling down for the extra info.

IMO your £600 budget is better spent in a sound bar for a few reasons.

There isn't a huge choice in 5.1 AV receiver + speaker packages any more. Sound bars have nibbled away too much at that market. Anything that is available new will be significantly compromised in the speaker department compared to the sort of system level that @hornetstinger would like to see you install. That's nothing against hornetstinger. He's doing what he thinks is best, and yes, if the budget was more or you were willing to buy used (a whole other can of worms) then no doubt you could improve the performance, but I don't see that as your priority.

There are significant manufacturing economies made when nearly all the speakers and electronics inhabit a single box. Sound bars don't yet pip amp and speaker set-ups for audio fidelity, but they might just be good enough, and that's what's more important to you.

If you can afford better then do spend the extra. £600 might be a figure you've research, or it could have been pulled out of the air, we don't know. We only have the info that you provide. The more you tell us then the better able we are to help you narrow down the choices.
 
lucid said:
@thisisthecount Have a look at the sound bar reviews at the rtings web site LINK They are comprehensive and give useful short summary comparisons between the most likely choices at similar price points. It's worth spending a bit of time noodling through and drilling down for the extra info.

IMO your £600 budget is better spent in a sound bar for a few reasons.

There isn't a huge choice in 5.1 AV receiver + speaker packages any more. Sound bars have nibbled away too much at that market. Anything that is available new will be significantly compromised in the speaker department compared to the sort of system level that @hornetstinger would like to see you install. That's nothing against hornetstinger. He's doing what he thinks is best, and yes, if the budget was more or you were willing to buy used (a whole other can of worms) then no doubt you could improve the performance, but I don't see that as your priority.

There are significant manufacturing economies made when nearly all the speakers and electronics inhabit a single box. Sound bars don't yet pip amp and speaker set-ups for audio fidelity, but they might just be good enough, and that's what's more important to you.

If you can afford better then do spend the extra. £600 might be a figure you've research, or it could have been pulled out of the air, we don't know. We only have the info that you provide. The more you tell us then the better able we are to help you narrow down the choices.
Click to expand...
I think I could be persuaded to spend a couple of hundred more if its a no brainer to go from this £630 to an £800

Samsung Q990B Soundbar Speaker (2022) - 11.1.4ch
£865.00


or the original modest

Samsung Q930B Soundbar Speaker (2022) - 9.1.4ch
£629

The Q930B seems like a bargain but would I really hear the difference in your opinion @lucid
 
Or spend a teensy bit more ;)

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Issue with soundbars is you're stuck with it. If hdmi standards change, new codecs, you want more hdmi inputs, issues with hdmi e-arc, TV doesn't pass all formats. If sub dies, you're stuck, rears also. If soundbar dies the rest is usless. Can't mix and match. can't add a second sub unless it's designed to do that. If you don't like stereo performance from music CD you're stuck. Can't add or replaces larger left and right speakers.

The atmos 11ch is just fake Atmos with bouncy aimed speakers and DSP, reverb and phasing rather than actual speakers around the room.
 
For example I used e-arc but I was having issues with losing lock and pops, even though the TV supports all formats, TV supports e-arc, and so does my avr. TV had four inputs.

So I put all my devices into my avr then onto my TV.

If I had a soundbar I'd be screwed. A hdmi switch would possibly sort it but it would have to have two hdmi outputs , one for the TV and one for the soundbar. Those won't be cheap and that also means another remote, more cabling, and needing macros on a remote.
 
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