Help with Garage Conversion TV & Sound

hornetstinger said:
For example I used e-arc but I was having issues with losing lock and pops, even though the TV supports all formats, TV supports e-arc, and so does my avr. TV had four inputs.

So I put all my devices into my avr then onto my TV.

If I had a soundbar I'd be screwed. A hdmi switch would possibly sort it but it would have to have two hdmi outputs , one for the TV and one for the soundbar. Those won't be cheap and that also means another remote, more cabling, and needing macros on a remote.
Click to expand...
take your point totally. Just can't afford to go to that level. So are you saying the more expensive =Soundbar for (me) isn't worth the price difference by the sounds of it?
 
thisisthecount said:
I think I could be persuaded to spend a couple of hundred more if its a no brainer to go from this £630 to an £800

Samsung Q990B Soundbar Speaker (2022) - 11.1.4ch
£865.00


or the original modest

Samsung Q930B Soundbar Speaker (2022) - 9.1.4ch
£629

The Q930B seems like a bargain but would I really hear the difference in your opinion @lucid
Click to expand...
The 990 is better, but not £240 (40%) better. The rtings site gives a useful comparison between the two models.

The cons that @hornetstinger mentions are mostly true. Yes, if HDMI standards change then you're stuck. But lets have a look at what that means for you rather than someone with a separates system. Your connection between the TV and the sound bar via HDMI ARC carries sound only. If next week they announced 3D 12K with 30 bit colour, can you guess how much impact that would have on your sound connection? Zero. None whatsoever. Zilch. Nada. Zip. It might affect me, with my 4K AVR where all he sources connect to it rather than the TV, should I want to take advantage of it. I'd have to change my TV and the AVR, or just change my TV and use ARC/eARC when watching the new fabby-dabby format, so guess which I'd do.

"But... but... but what if you don't like the stereo performance? Huh? Huh?" Well, that's why you buy from a store that can do a demo (and you do buy it from the store that did the demo rather than stiffing them by ordering online for the sake of saving £20-£30. We need to ensure that the few remaining bricks & mortar stores stay in business).

"But... if you want to add a second sub? Huh? Huh?" We're adults here. If someone thinks they're likely to want multiple subs, then don't start with a flipping sound bar. Ditto for the mix-n-match thing.

"But... what if your sub dies? Huh? Huh?" - Well, you buy it from the bricks & mortar store that did the demo and that offers and extended warranty in with the price. That's 5-6 years peace of mind if you buy from John Lewis or Richer Sounds.

"But... sound problems" See warranty in the point above.

"But... what if the TV doesn't pass all the sound formats? Huh? Huh?" First, you look at what sound formats you're actually going to use rather than worrying about formats that you're unlikely to ever encounter.
  • Online streaming; the best you're going to get is DVD quality 5.1 with the addition of Dolby Atmos. This would be DD+ format, and basic HDMI ARC will pass that. You don't even need eARC
  • Ordinary TV (terrestrial / satellite / cable) is DVD quality 5.1 (DD) at best unless you have Sky's premium package with the UHD English Premiere League football channels. Anything else with Atmos is via download. Once again, standard HDMI ARC will handle this
  • Gaming - the best option here is to set the console to LPCM mode, but check that both the TV and sound bar support this. You will need eARC onboth devices to successfully pass this signal. (TTBOMK, the 930 does accept LPCM.) The fall back is to set the console to DD or DTS. DD is the same as streaming and ordinary TV. DTS support as in audio pass-thru via the TV depends on the TV manufacturer supporting it. The sound bar does support DTS.
Sound summary - if the TV and sound bar support DD+ (which virtually everything at this sort of level does) then you're covered. DTS via the TV needs investigation. This would be mostly for games consoles, but there is talk of Disney+ adding DTS as an option alongside the existing DD+ sound tracks for its IMAX-enhanced Marvel films. AFAIK, it hasn't happened yet.
 
Issues that I could see

"I have a XYZ soundbar that is 6 years 1 month old and is just out of warranty, the amplifier has died on it"
- unfortuantly we no longer have parts for this product, please buy a complete new soundbar package


"The new movie 'Avengers CXIII- please let this franchise die' has Dolby Atmos 2 how do you suggest I get this exciting new format
- Buy a brand new replacement soundbar

"My TV E-ARC doesn't support Dolby Atmos 2, but your new soundbar does, so I've sold the previously perfectly good soundbar from the above question, but it only has one HDMI input what do you suggest"
- Replace your perfectly good 85" calibrated top end TV just to get E-ARC Version 3, after you just spent money on our soundbar.

"After buying a new soundbar and a new TV to get Atmos 2, I'm having issues with E-ARC, I cannot get it to work properly, your soundbar has one input so I can't use my BD player seperate audio output"
- I guess you're screwed then. Ho Ho Ho.

"My toddler pulled and dangled on the HDMI cable and the single HDMI port is now damaged what do you suggest"
- buy a new soundbar

"We have moved to a slightly larger room so the soundbar and sub is struggling, what do you suggest"
- buy our brand new complete soundbar with bigger drivers. It is incompatible with your existing wireless sub and rears

"I heard my mates Sennheiser soundbar, and it sounds better with more intelligent DSP and superior reflecting, can I buy one of these and connect them to your XYZ sub and rears"
- No being we are Ferengi princriples, we have locked in the sub rears to our soundbars

"I'm happy with the subwoofer but I would like a second for flatterning response, also just to get a little more output as I'm 2dB above the headroom and it's distorting slightly on bassy scenes"
- Sorry our soundbar only supports our own propietary wireless system, and the soundbar only supports one subwoofer

"The subwoofer has blown out of warranty do you offer replacement plate amp or sell the same sub"
- No we no longer sell parts or that sub, also the new subwoofers use different wireless protocol so are incompatible with your soundbar, please buy a complete new soundbar package

"We have moved into a different home that is victorian style, do you offer wood effect/veneer, do you offer a different style of sub"
- no just black

"I went round a mates house and he uses some bipole rear speakers, these work better as I'm close to them, the speakers you have in your wireless speakers are just monopole, do you offer bipole surround wireless speakers"
- No.

"Of all the questions above, what would allow me to find a solution, once I buy them without having to sell off, throw away the whole lot"
- a regular AVR, regular passive speakers, and regular active subwoofer. E-ARC a problem? Go direct. One item blows? Replace it. Want a better subwoofer or duals? No problem. Want different colour or finish? No problem. Want to upgrade the AVR to get Atmos 2 keeping your speakers and sub? No problem. Want to change LCR because you want bigger soundstage for CD's ? No problem.
 
Most of your points below is just being nitpicky. However, to humour you

Issues that I could see

"I have a XYZ soundbar that is 6 years 1 month old and is just out of warranty, the amplifier has died on it"
- unfortuantly we no longer have parts for this product, please buy a complete new soundbar package

If that can happen with a sound bar then it can happen with an AV receiver or a TV.

"The new movie 'Avengers CXIII- please let this franchise die' has Dolby Atmos 2 how do you suggest I get this exciting new format
- Buy a brand new replacement soundbar

Dolby Atmos 2.0 isn't a new sound format in the way that Dolby Digital and Dolby True HD and Dolby Digital Plus are. It's a re-encoding process inside a source device that takes the existing DD+ or True HD audio, converts it to PCM and adds the meta data as a separate package. If your sources are online streaming then Atmos 2.0 has no sound quality benefit.

For someone who is an avid PC gamer (and spending the megabucks to chase that rabbit), then keeping the sound in PCM format means less of a processing overhead for the graphics card HDMI output.

"My TV E-ARC doesn't support Dolby Atmos 2, but your new soundbar does, so I've sold the previously perfectly good soundbar from the above question, but it only has one HDMI input what do you suggest"
- Replace your perfectly good 85" calibrated top end TV just to get E-ARC Version 3, after you just spent money on our soundbar.

See the DD+ point above

"After buying a new soundbar and a new TV to get Atmos 2, I'm having issues with E-ARC, I cannot get it to work properly, your soundbar has one input so I can't use my BD player seperate audio output"
- I guess you're screwed then. Ho Ho Ho.

"I bought a new (and very expensive) AV Receiver, but there's a compatibility issue with some of the latest sound formats"
- Yeah, we know. We're trying to fix it. Come back and see us in 12 months - Yours sincerely, Denon, Yamaha, Marantz etc

"My toddler pulled and dangled on the HDMI cable and the single HDMI port is now damaged what do you suggest"
- buy a new soundbar
Do you have house insurance with accidental damage?

"We have moved to a slightly larger room so the soundbar and sub is struggling, what do you suggest"
- buy our brand new complete soundbar with bigger drivers. It is incompatible with your existing wireless sub and rears
"I moved to a slightly larger room and now my £600 AVR and £400 are struggling to fill the space when I turn up the wick"
- You should have bought some Boulder Power Amps and a 15" Monolith THX sub - Yours sincerely, Hornetstinger
(This one from Hornetstinger's stock answer pile. What goes around comes around.)

"I heard my mates Sennheiser soundbar, and it sounds better with more intelligent DSP and superior reflecting, can I buy one of these and connect them to your XYZ sub and rears"
- No being we are Ferengi princriples, we have locked in the sub rears to our soundbars
"A few years ago I was going to buy a £600 AVR, but some forum user insisted that a pre-power combo would sound best. It cost a lot more. Now I've just heard my friend's £1,200 Denon AV Receiver with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and the room EQ is much better than my £2,000 pre-amp. Can I upgrade the EQ on mine?"
- No, sorry. You need to buy a new pre-amp or add this £1200 box and buy a £200 calibrated mic then learn all about room EQ.

"I'm happy with the subwoofer but I would like a second for flatterning response, also just to get a little more output as I'm 2dB above the headroom and it's distorting slightly on bassy scenes"
- Sorry our soundbar only supports our own propietary wireless system, and the soundbar only supports one subwoofer
This is just getting silly now. Sound bar owners don't go down this road. Hell, not many garden variety AV Receiver users even go down this road.

"The subwoofer has blown out of warranty do you offer replacement plate amp or sell the same sub"
- No we no longer sell parts or that sub, also the new subwoofers use different wireless protocol so are incompatible with your soundbar, please buy a complete new soundbar package
We can put you in touch with your nearest repair centre.

"We have moved into a different home that is victorian style, do you offer wood effect/veneer, do you offer a different style of sub"
- no just black - because the sub isn't the size of a small caravan and so it can be hidden behind the sofa or chair. Oh, and it's wireless too so you don't have to worry about wires trailing round the room.

"I went round a mates house and he uses some bipole rear speakers, these work better as I'm close to them, the speakers you have in your wireless speakers are just monopole, do you offer bipole surround wireless speakers"
- No. Whilst we acknowledge that bipoles work better in certain circumstances, you bought our sound bar with sub that does Dolby Atmos 5.1.4, and bipoles are not recommended for Atmos. Also, your complete sound bar package came in at £600, and your mate's bipoles cost him £450 for the pair. I'm sure you can see that there's a bit of a budget challenge there.

"Of all the questions above, what would allow me to find a solution, once I buy them without having to sell off, throw away the whole lot"
- a regular AVR, regular passive speakers, and regular active subwoofer. E-ARC a problem? Go direct. One item blows? Replace it. Want a better subwoofer or duals? No problem. Want different colour or finish? No problem. Want to upgrade the AVR to get Atmos 2 keeping your speakers and sub? No problem. Want to change LCR because you want bigger soundstage for CD's ? No problem.

You're creating problems because you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I'll take one of your points from this last paragraph; picking the finish of the speakers. A sound bar typically sits below a TV, and what colour are TVs predominantly?
 
Last edited:
"If that can happen with a sound bar then it can happen with an AV receiver or a TV. "

With a regular setup, if a AVR blows up simply replace the AVR. No need to change the speakers, or subwoofers. I can choose from any brand and model. Change brands if I didn't like the previous one. Can you replace the main soundbar unit, whilst keeping the wireless rears and subwoofer? Nope.

"Dolby Atmos 2.0 isn't a new sound format in the way that Dolby Digital and Dolby True HD and Dolby Digital Plus are. It's a re-encoding process inside a source device that takes the existing DD+ or True HD audio, converts it to PCM and adds the meta data as a separate package. If your sources are online streaming then Atmos 2.0 has no sound quality benefit. "

A new sound format makes your soundbar drop down in the decoding for example if you have a Dolby HD only soundbar, and you send it Atmos, there is nothing you can do, it would require a whole new soundbar system to get Atmos. With mine just replace the AVR. Again keeping the speakers and subwoofers. I went from non HDMI AV pre amp to one with HDMI 2.0, 4K, Atmos, DTS X, HDR, Dolby Vision. Without changing any speakers, amplifiers or subwoofers. In fact it allowed me to use the spare amplifiers as it added more decoding channels.

"- Yeah, we know. We're trying to fix it. Come back and see us in 12 months - Yours sincerely, Denon, Yamaha, Marantz etc
Or just don't use E-ARC, go direct through the AVR. Can't do that with sound bars as they lack the number of HDMI inputs. Or if your TV is ARC only then you are limited to DD/DTS only. So you'd need a new TV! LOL. I have someone who went from 7.1 non HDMI system to 7.1.4 Atmos/DTS X system with 1080p plasma, so that allowed him to get latest sound formats with a old TV. Couldn't do that with soundbar. He'd need a new TV also.

" - You should have bought some Boulder Power Amps and a 15" Monolith THX sub - Yours sincerely, Hornetstinger
(This one from Hornetstinger's stock answer pile. What goes around comes around.)"

You don't know what the movie situation is, going from DVD to BD, and more and more bass heavy movies shows weakness in the system.Again you're stuck with what you have. If you find that 8" Rel subwoofer is too weedy, upgrade to a 12" ported with zero impact on the rest of the gear.

"You're creating problems because you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole."

No I'm pointing out flaws in soundbar systems, they're for the Apple crowd who want to be told how they should be used, and you don't need these features, for your detreiment that you are as of yet unware of.

Sound bars are ok for someone who just wants to plonk down a sound system, but they have several drawbacks- connectivity, upgradability, not standardised multi brand interchangable eco system.

I've linked to a couple of affordable seperate speakers, get a budget AVR and you're on the path to allow total flexibility.
 
Last edited:
OP, ignore the audiophiles, if you're like me and just want something a bit more beefy than the speakers in the TV that gives some degree of surround sound then a soundbar is fine. I don't own even a DVD player except on my Xbox, but my soundbar accepts Skybox, Xbox and I have a spare HDMI lead available for laptop streaming or when i (very rarely) use my PS4

I bought my Yamaha when my daughter was born and having cabling and speakers everywhere just wasn't practical 12 years ago. It's done exactly what I wanted from it.
 
wesimmo said:
OP, ignore the audiophiles, if you're like me and just want something a bit more beefy than the speakers in the TV that gives some degree of surround sound then a soundbar is fine. I don't own even a DVD player except on my Xbox, but my soundbar accepts Skybox, Xbox and I have a spare HDMI lead available for laptop streaming or when i (very rarely) use my PS4

I bought my Yamaha when my daughter was born and having cabling and speakers everywhere just wasn't practical 12 years ago. It's done exactly what I wanted from it.
Click to expand...

Nowt to do with being "audiophile" if they both sound the same I'd still recommend the avr.

If your car gearbox blows up would you the junk the car or replacing the gear box?
 
Strange analogy.

I'd say your advice is more often than not like somebody asking for a little 4 door car that they can use to pootle to the shops and back and you recommend upping the budget for an M3.

Some people just aren't bothered about millions of decibels and totally accurate surround sound, they just want something simple with a small footprint that sounds a bit better than what a TV can give.
 
wesimmo said:
Strange analogy.

I'd say your advice is more often than not like somebody asking for a little 4 door car that they can use to pootle to the shops and back and you recommend upping the budget for an M3.

Some people just aren't bothered about millions of decibels and totally accurate surround sound, they just want something simple with a small footprint that sounds a bit better than what a TV can give.
Click to expand...

Nope. You can buy afford seperates. Budget avr, passive on wall soundbar, small sub.

If your Yamaha dies (likely as they have issues with PSU) they're a nightmare to open and service. Being tiny and enclosed the components get hot.
 
Last edited:
hornetstinger said:
"If that can happen with a sound bar then it can happen with an AV receiver or a TV. "

With a regular setup, if a AVR blows up simply replace the AVR. No need to change the speakers, or subwoofers. I can choose from any brand and model. Change brands if I didn't like the previous one. Can you replace the main soundbar unit, whilst keeping the wireless rears and subwoofer? Nope.

"Dolby Atmos 2.0 isn't a new sound format in the way that Dolby Digital and Dolby True HD and Dolby Digital Plus are. It's a re-encoding process inside a source device that takes the existing DD+ or True HD audio, converts it to PCM and adds the meta data as a separate package. If your sources are online streaming then Atmos 2.0 has no sound quality benefit. "

A new sound format makes your soundbar drop down in the decoding for example if you have a Dolby HD only soundbar, and you send it Atmos, there is nothing you can do, it would require a whole new soundbar system to get Atmos. With mine just replace the AVR. Again keeping the speakers and subwoofers. I went from non HDMI AV pre amp to one with HDMI 2.0, 4K, Atmos, DTS X, HDR, Dolby Vision. Without changing any speakers, amplifiers or subwoofers. In fact it allowed me to use the spare amplifiers as it added more decoding channels.

"- Yeah, we know. We're trying to fix it. Come back and see us in 12 months - Yours sincerely, Denon, Yamaha, Marantz etc
Or just don't use E-ARC, go direct through the AVR. Can't do that with sound bars as they lack the number of HDMI inputs. Or if your TV is ARC only then you are limited to DD/DTS only. So you'd need a new TV! LOL. I have someone who went from 7.1 non HDMI system to 7.1.4 Atmos/DTS X system with 1080p plasma, so that allowed him to get latest sound formats with a old TV. Couldn't do that with soundbar. He'd need a new TV also.

" - You should have bought some Boulder Power Amps and a 15" Monolith THX sub - Yours sincerely, Hornetstinger
(This one from Hornetstinger's stock answer pile. What goes around comes around.)"

You don't know what the movie situation is, going from DVD to BD, and more and more bass heavy movies shows weakness in the system.Again you're stuck with what you have. If you find that 8" Rel subwoofer is too weedy, upgrade to a 12" ported with zero impact on the rest of the gear.

"You're creating problems because you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole."

No I'm pointing out flaws in soundbar systems, they're for the Apple crowd who want to be told how they should be used, and you don't need these features, for your detreiment that you are as of yet unware of.

Sound bars are ok for someone who just wants to plonk down a sound system, but they have several drawbacks- connectivity, upgradability, not standardised multi brand interchangable eco system.

I've linked to a couple of affordable seperate speakers, get a budget AVR and you're on the path to allow total flexibility.
Click to expand...

Just.... stop. Stop.

Look, do you think we're all children here? Do you seriously believe you're the only one with any experience in this? Are you really that deluded!?!

Of course we all know the pros and cons of AVRs and sound bars. The problem here is you're back on with your blinkered, self-centred, tunnel vision view that just because you have an AVR-based system then everyone else must have an AVR-based system. That's deeply deeply egotistical of you. It shows a serious lack of cognitive development. In a nutshell, it means that you haven't developed mentally from the outlook of being a rather young child.

You appear to lack empathy, and it reads like you have no appreciation of another person's perspective. As a result, your responses come across as selfish and inconsiderate. This is something you should probably seek professional help for. You probably can't see it yourself, but get someone who you trust to read through some of your exchanges and ask them to point out where you've ignored what the OP was asking for.
 
Last edited:
lucid said:
Just.... stop. Stop.

Look, do you think we're all children here? Do you seriously believe you're the only one with any experience in this? Are you really that deluded!?!

Of course we all know the pros and cons of AVRs and sound bars. The problem here is you're back on with your blinkered, self-centred, tunnel vision view that just because you have an AVR-based system then everyone else must have an AVR-based system. That's deeply deeply egotistical of you. It shows a serious lack of cognitive development. In a nutshell, it means that you haven't developed mentally from the outlook of being a rather young child.

You appear to lack the empathy, and it reads like you have no appreciation of another person's perspective. As a result, your responses come across as selfish and inconsiderate. This is something you should probably seek professional help for. You probably can't see it yourself, but get someone who you trust to read through some of your exchanges and ask them to point out where you've ignored what the OP was asking for.
Click to expand...

I don't have a avr system for main system

I have a AV pre amp and multiple power amplifiers. With one item costing multiple times the op is looking at the soundbar.

Op I suggest going to have a demo of soundbar and budget avr system.

And going down personal insult?. Who's the immature one?
 
hornetstinger said:
I don't have a avr system for main system

I have a AV pre amp and multiple power amplifiers. With one item costing multiple times the op is looking at the soundbar.

Op I suggest going to have a demo of soundbar and budget avr system.

And going down personal insult?. Who's the immature one?
Click to expand...
It's not an insult. It's an observation of your character, and one that others have picked up on too. Take a step back and have a look at how you're handling things.
 
thisisthecount said:
thanks @lucid
Thanks a lot for your guidance here, some of it I totally get.

Just so I am thinking straight here, I think I’m going to run a HDMI 2.1 cable then, maybe a micro HDMI 2.1 as I noticed one of the Samsung soundbars seems to have this in the back of it.

So, I’m thinking these are a good price for what I could get - it’s only a 5m x 5m room?

Right now, the builder is pressuring me so I know where the HDMI cable and power cable needs to go for the soundbar as I’d be mounding it on the wall and don’t want to see any holes behind it, so positioning is key if that makes sense.


The 85 will just go straight now, I’ve decided and agree that the room isn’t big enough to warrant being able to rotate it I think. Same with the bar. The Samsung S800B looks very nice and slim and will look better underneath the screen, as the Samsung Q930B seems to look more like a shelf as its a lot deeper? But would you say its way less inferior than the Q930B?

I could research forever but the pressure is based on having to commit to where the holes are behind the soundbar and each soundbar will have its sound/power ports so I guess by narrowing down to these two with yours or others’ recommendations then it might help?

You mention HDMI (with the ARC or later eARC feature - what should I be checking when doing a final check on these and an 85” TV to make sure

Guess these should be sufficient?

(These both seem to state and mention a couple of things you said I should future-proof or “current proof - Dolby Atmos DTS + HDMI eARC” )

(any 2.1 hdmi cable right? - don’t have to be specific )

Samsung Q930B - £630

https://amzn.eu/d/fvENE53

Or the

Samsung S800B All In One Soundbar? £369

https://amzn.eu/d/4mVgHAO

It seems like the slim one is so cheap?

Won’t it be good enough to

You mentioned “38mmx25mm Mini Trunking” nothing will be visible so I’m struggling with this - I guess there might be something flexible and maybe use a rod-type solution.
Click to expand...
Just picking up on some point's I missed from this reply, @thisisthecount

Just so I am thinking straight here, I think I’m going to run a HDMI 2.1 cable then, maybe a micro HDMI 2.1 as I noticed one of the Samsung soundbars seems to have this in the back of it.
Click to expand...

There isn't really a 'HDMI 2.1' cable, but think there should be. It bugs me that the circuitry behind the ports (sockets) are referred to by the various numbered HDMI standards e.g. 1.3, 1.4, 2.0a, 2,1b, but the cables are simply High Speed, Premium High Speed, and Ultra High Speed. There's no natural synergy between the two naming systems. No wonder resellers started slapping on HDMI X.Xx

The audio signal doesn't need anything fancy. A High Speed cable should be enough, but anything labelled 'HDMI 1.4' or higher should nail it.


The Samsung S800B looks very nice and slim and will look better underneath the screen, as the Samsung Q930B seems to look more like a shelf as its a lot deeper? But would you say its way less inferior than the Q930B?
Click to expand...

For sound, going too slim is not your friend. Slim means limited space for speakers, and that in turn means speakers that produce very little of the midrange frequencies, mostly just the higher frequencies. When that happens, then either the sub is used to try and fill in, but then you get the effect where part of the dialogue sound is coming from the sub and a bit coming from the sound bar, or they just leave a hole where a chunk of the midrange should be.

The Q930 is significantly better than the S800B. It's worth the extra.


You mention HDMI (with the ARC or later eARC feature - what should I be checking when doing a final check on these and an 85” TV to make sure
Click to expand...

Any TV with a HDMI 1.4 or higher HDMI spec should support ARC. It has been out since 2009, so that's well over a decade.
HDMI 2.1 is the standard where eARC started to be supported. Officially it has been available for about five years, but it took a little while for it to trickle down from the higher end models to the midrange products. Because of licencing costs, there are some budget products that only support ARC, so this one is worth double checking.


You mentioned “38mmx25mm Mini Trunking” nothing will be visible so I’m struggling with this - I guess there might be something flexible and maybe use a rod-type solution.
Click to expand...
Think "lift shaft between floors" - It's a vertical shaft with entry/exit points at different floor levels. You don't see the shaft because it's hidden behind the wall, but it makes it easy to travel from one floor level to the next. 'Travel' in this instance means pulling the old cable out whilst pulling a new cable through. The shaft has to be large enough in width and depth to accommodate the HDMI plugs plus allow them to pass through what is effectively a 90 degree bend at the lower and upper access points as they're being pulled.
 
lucid said:
Just picking up on some point's I missed from this reply, @thisisthecount



There isn't really a 'HDMI 2.1' cable, but think there should be. It bugs me that the circuitry behind the ports (sockets) are referred to by the various numbered HDMI standards e.g. 1.3, 1.4, 2.0a, 2,1b, but the cables are simply High Speed, Premium High Speed, and Ultra High Speed. There's no natural synergy between the two naming systems. No wonder resellers started slapping on HDMI X.Xx

The audio signal doesn't need anything fancy. A High Speed cable should be enough, but anything labelled 'HDMI 1.4' or higher should nail it.




For sound, going too slim is not your friend. Slim means limited space for speakers, and that in turn means speakers that produce very little of the midrange frequencies, mostly just the higher frequencies. When that happens, then either the sub is used to try and fill in, but then you get the effect where part of the dialogue sound is coming from the sub and a bit coming from the sound bar, or they just leave a hole where a chunk of the midrange should be.

The Q930 is significantly better than the S800B. It's worth the extra.




Any TV with a HDMI 1.4 or higher HDMI spec should support ARC. It has been out since 2009, so that's well over a decade.
HDMI 2.1 is the standard where eARC started to be supported. Officially it has been available for about five years, but it took a little while for it to trickle down from the higher end models to the midrange products. Because of licencing costs, there are some budget products that only support ARC, so this one is worth double checking.



Think "lift shaft between floors" - It's a vertical shaft with entry/exit points at different floor levels. You don't see the shaft because it's hidden behind the wall, but it makes it easy to travel from one floor level to the next. 'Travel' in this instance means pulling the old cable out whilst pulling a new cable through. The shaft has to be large enough in width and depth to accommodate the HDMI plugs plus allow them to pass through what is effectively a 90 degree bend at the lower and upper access points as they're being pulled.
Click to expand...
thanks, this is all very useful...
So today, I popped into my local Currys and found a few items on display which I could compare;


First off, there were three of the Samsung soundbar sets (none had rear speakers)
Original one I am considering as I liked the idea of rear speakers -

Samsung HW-Q930B​


Samsung HW-Q930B Bluetooth Wi-Fi Cinematic Soundbar with Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, Wireless Subwoofer & Rear Speakers, Black

Buy Samsung HW-Q930B Bluetooth Wi-Fi Cinematic Soundbar with Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, Wireless Subwoofer & Rear Speakers, Black from our Soundbars range at John Lewis & Partners. Free Delivery on orders over £50.
www.johnlewis.com www.johnlewis.com

So on their floor, I tried the demo

SAMSUNG HW-Q800C/XU 5.1.2


SAMSUNG HW-S800B/XU 3.1.2

SAMSUNG HW-Q600C/XU 3.1.2


My test basically concluded as the S800B was very tinny. Yes nice and slim but no depth and sounded high pitch and just terrible IMHO.

The Q600C was second best for the price too, it wasn't bad and I could probably be happy.

The Q800C was noticeably better from a bass POV - the Bass box was bigger and sounded much better.

My question would be whether there's an old version of the HW-Q800C and whether or not it would sound as good?
I do wonder why it sounds much better? could it be the bass and the fact its got 11 speakers instead of 9 of the Q600C?


Next, I took a look at the TV options in the Samsung range




I compared the entry-level 85" since I don't have the budget for anything more than at a push... £1700 (and I really only wanted to spend around £1300)

After speaking to a Curry's sales guy, It seems they are waiting for the 2023 models to hit the floor but they do have the newer Samsungs on their website.

This one was pointed out =.

SAMSUNG UE85CU7100KXXU 85" Smart 4K Ultra HD HDR LED TV with Bixby & Alexa

I saw this on the floor and it wasn't too bad picture wise? But its the older one he said =

SAMSUNG UE85BU8000KXXU 85" Smart 4K Ultra HD HDR LED TV with Bixby, Alexa & Google Assistant

Then I was told about the fact that 60 Hz isn't that great? and I'd need to go to over 100 Hz?

Probably is its now getting to the £1699 level and I've already gone over my £1300 limit!

So this is the 120 Hz:

SAMSUNG UE85CU8000KXXU 85" Smart 4K Ultra HD HDR LED TV with Bixby & Alexa



I guess if I could get it for around the £1500 I'd probably push to the 120 Hz if it really is going to be that much better?

Any guidance - I realise many out there would probably be more inclined to go to much more expensive ones but I really don't have the budget
 
thisisthecount said:
thanks, this is all very useful...
So today, I popped into my local Currys and found a few items on display which I could compare;


First off, there were three of the Samsung soundbar sets (none had rear speakers)
Original one I am considering as I liked the idea of rear speakers -

Samsung HW-Q930B​


Samsung HW-Q930B Bluetooth Wi-Fi Cinematic Soundbar with Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, Wireless Subwoofer & Rear Speakers, Black

Buy Samsung HW-Q930B Bluetooth Wi-Fi Cinematic Soundbar with Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, Wireless Subwoofer & Rear Speakers, Black from our Soundbars range at John Lewis & Partners. Free Delivery on orders over £50.
www.johnlewis.com www.johnlewis.com

So on their floor, I tried the demo

SAMSUNG HW-Q800C/XU 5.1.2


SAMSUNG HW-S800B/XU 3.1.2

SAMSUNG HW-Q600C/XU 3.1.2​


My test basically concluded as the S800B was very tinny. Yes nice and slim but no depth and sounded high pitch and just terrible IMHO.

The Q600C was second best for the price too, it wasn't bad and I could probably be happy.

The Q800C was noticeably better from a bass POV - the Bass box was bigger and sounded much better.

My question would be whether there's an old version of the HW-Q800C and whether or not it would sound as good?
I do wonder why it sounds much better? could it be the bass and the fact its got 11 speakers instead of 9 of the Q600C?


Next, I took a look at the TV options in the Samsung range




I compared the entry-level 85" since I don't have the budget for anything more than at a push... £1700 (and I really only wanted to spend around £1300)

After speaking to a Curry's sales guy, It seems they are waiting for the 2023 models to hit the floor but they do have the newer Samsungs on their website.

This one was pointed out =.

SAMSUNG UE85CU7100KXXU 85" Smart 4K Ultra HD HDR LED TV with Bixby & Alexa

I saw this on the floor and it wasn't too bad picture wise? But its the older one he said =

SAMSUNG UE85BU8000KXXU 85" Smart 4K Ultra HD HDR LED TV with Bixby, Alexa & Google Assistant

Then I was told about the fact that 60 Hz isn't that great? and I'd need to go to over 100 Hz?

Probably is its now getting to the £1699 level and I've already gone over my £1300 limit!

So this is the 120 Hz:

SAMSUNG UE85CU8000KXXU 85" Smart 4K Ultra HD HDR LED TV with Bixby & Alexa



I guess if I could get it for around the £1500 I'd probably push to the 120 Hz if it really is going to be that much better?

Any guidance - I realise many out there would probably be more inclined to go to much more expensive ones but I really don't have the budget
Click to expand...

Sound bars: Q600C vs Q800C; the 800 is the superior range between the two. The main bar is thicker which means more space for the drivers to develop a deeper richer tone compared to the 600. The sub on the 800 has an 8" driver versus 6.5" with the 600.

I'm puzzled why you wouldn't go for the Q930?

Okay, it's a 2022 model and not a 2023 model, but it comes from a higher range than all the other bars in your list. That means not only does it do 5.1.4 Atmos with proper rear speakers (the others don't, or has them as optional items which makes the whole thing a lot more expensive), but you also get superior tuning (it's tweaked better for sound as part of the design) and there's the room EQ feature and possibly slightly better amplification since rtings mentions less compression at higher volumes vs the 2022 Q800B.

Incidentally, the 2023 Q800C is a fraction better than the Q800B, but still not as good as the Q930B. My advice to you on this is clear: Buy the Q930B while you still can. You'll be kicking yourself you missed the deal once this stock is all sold through.

TVs - Crystal is Samsung's basic range. The 85" version of the CU8000 is a 100Hz/1200Hz set. UK TV is based on our mains frequency which is 50Hz. A TV which is 100Hz is able to draw twice as many pictures per second than one which is 50Hz. (50Hz = 50 pictures per second. 100Hz = 100) This helps with image clarity in fast motion. There's less motion blur. 60Hz and 120Hz comes about because we have a lot of US-sourced streaming content. Their mains frequency is 60Hz, so their base refresh rate is 60Hz too (60 images per second). Their better level sets do 120Hz.

Digital TVs bought in the UK can handle 60Hz too. a 100Hz set will scan at 120Hz as well.

Image processing plays a part with TVs too. Image processing doesn't change the number of images a panel can display per second, but it can do a better job of rendering the incoming image. In this respect the CU7100 has a slight advantage over the 8000 despite only being a 50Hz/60Hz set. The image processing is working more effectively with the 50Hz screen whereas it struggles to keep up with the 100Hz screen. the 7100 is better for gaming (faster response time).

The Achilles Heels with the Crystal sets are a lack of image brightness (too few LEDs behind the screen), and limited or no dimming features.

The brightness issue rears its head when comparing HDR versus standard dynamic range (SDR). The sets are sort of okay on SDR brightness. But there's nothing left in reserve to give the HDR images the extra pop they require to make those Marvel 4K streaming films really zing off the screen. These screens also struggle with the ability to dim all or some of the screen area to enhance the contrast.

I think what's crucifying you here is the drive to get a huge screen. The change in cost between a 75" and an 85" screen is disproportionate to the screen area increase. The 75" CU7100 is £849 at Currys. The 85" version is £1449. The 85" is 28% more screen area, but you're spending over 70% extra to get it.

If it was me, I'd buy a much better TV at 75" rather than stretching the budget too thin just to get 85". I'd give serious thought to the Sony XR75X90K at £1499. This ticks a lot more boxes. It's 100/120Hz, and adds full array local dimming (all the LEDs are behind the screen, and they can be dimmed in segments to enhance the screen contrast. The images are much brighter in both SDR and HDR. The motion processing is excellent compared to the Samsungs. You get far better clarity with fast motion and it's a great TV for gaming (low lag). There's also full support for variable refresh rate (VRR) if your console has that. Finally, Sonys can work with HDR10 and Dolby Vision. Samsungs don't support DV (it's political.) A smaller but far more vibrant screen is more eye-catching than a bigger dull one.

The Sony isn't perfect. Viewing the screen off axis results in the colour losing some impact. This is due to the VA panel and it's a trade-off for the far better contrast that these produce. The alternative would be a TV with an IPS panel (LG mostly) where you get a better viewing angle but the blacks look grey. The Samsungs are likely to use VA panels too, so you're no better off with them as they lose colour saturation too.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom