Help with Garage Conversion TV & Sound

thisisthecount · 21 Jun 2023 at 19:50

lucid said:
Sound bars: Q600C vs Q800C; the 800 is the superior range between the two. The main bar is thicker which means more space for the drivers to develop a deeper richer tone compared to the 600. The sub on the 800 has an 8" driver versus 6.5" with the 600.

I'm puzzled why you wouldn't go for the Q930?

Okay, it's a 2022 model and not a 2023 model, but it comes from a higher range than all the other bars in your list. That means not only does it do 5.1.4 Atmos with proper rear speakers (the others don't, or has them as optional items which makes the whole thing a lot more expensive), but you also get superior tuning (it's tweaked better for sound as part of the design) and there's the room EQ feature and possibly slightly better amplification since rtings mentions less compression at higher volumes vs the 2022 Q800B.

Incidentally, the 2023 Q800C is a fraction better than the Q800B, but still not as good as the Q930B. My advice to you on this is clear: Buy the Q930B while you still can. You'll be kicking yourself you missed the deal once this stock is all sold through.

TVs - Crystal is Samsung's basic range. The 85" version of the CU8000 is a 100Hz/1200Hz set. UK TV is based on our mains frequency which is 50Hz. A TV which is 100Hz is able to draw twice as many pictures per second than one which is 50Hz. (50Hz = 50 pictures per second. 100Hz = 100) This helps with image clarity in fast motion. There's less motion blur. 60Hz and 120Hz comes about because we have a lot of US-sourced streaming content. Their mains frequency is 60Hz, so their base refresh rate is 60Hz too (60 images per second). Their better level sets do 120Hz.

Digital TVs bought in the UK can handle 60Hz too. a 100Hz set will scan at 120Hz as well.

Image processing plays a part with TVs too. Image processing doesn't change the number of images a panel can display per second, but it can do a better job of rendering the incoming image. In this respect the CU7100 has a slight advantage over the 8000 despite only being a 50Hz/60Hz set. The image processing is working more effectively with the 50Hz screen whereas it struggles to keep up with the 100Hz screen. the 7100 is better for gaming (faster response time).

The Achilles Heels with the Crystal sets are a lack of image brightness (too few LEDs behind the screen), and limited or no dimming features.

The brightness issue rears its head when comparing HDR versus standard dynamic range (SDR). The sets are sort of okay on SDR brightness. But there's nothing left in reserve to give the HDR images the extra pop they require to make those Marvel 4K streaming films really zing off the screen. These screens also struggle with the ability to dim all or some of the screen area to enhance the contrast.

I think what's crucifying you here is the drive to get a huge screen. The change in cost between a 75" and an 85" screen is disproportionate to the screen area increase. The 75" CU7100 is £849 at Currys. The 85" version is £1449. The 85" is 28% more screen area, but you're spending over 70% extra to get it.

If it was me, I'd buy a much better TV at 75" rather than stretching the budget too thin just to get 85". I'd give serious thought to the Sony XR75X90K at £1499. This ticks a lot more boxes. It's 100/120Hz, and adds full array local dimming (all the LEDs are behind the screen, and they can be dimmed in segments to enhance the screen contrast. The images are much brighter in both SDR and HDR. The motion processing is excellent compared to the Samsungs. You get far better clarity with fast motion and it's a great TV for gaming (low lag). There's also full support for variable refresh rate (VRR) if your console has that. Finally, Sonys can work with HDR10 and Dolby Vision. Samsungs don't support DV (it's political.) A smaller but far more vibrant screen is more eye-catching than a bigger dull one.

The Sony isn't perfect. Viewing the screen off axis results in the colour losing some impact. This is due to the VA panel and it's a trade-off for the far better contrast that these produce. The alternative would be a TV with an IPS panel (LG mostly) where you get a better viewing angle but the blacks look grey. The Samsungs are likely to use VA panels too, so you're no better off with them as they lose colour saturation too.

@lucid this is great, thanks for this.

So Q930B looks to be your recommendation and gives me rear speakers which kind of sounds awesome! I haven't heard one but based on listening to the HW-Q800C which sounded pretty punch to me in Currys and didn't have rear speakers, are you saying in theory the Q930B should sound the same or better perhaps? its only £629 here : https://www.reliant.co.uk/samsung-hwq930b-black-1000010470

Regarding 85" - I've had to commit to the calling already so that ship has sailed so I would like to still commit to 85"
What do you think? bearing in mind, it's not going to be a TV which will be scrutinised by a professional - just my teenage kids and adults partying and drinking half of the time?

lucid · 21 Jun 2023 at 20:25

Save the £250 and get the 7100. Despite being 50Hz it's not that far off the 8000 performance and is actually a bit better than the 8000 for gaming.

The rear speakers on the 930 are wired, so while the walls are still open you should run the speaker wire for them.

hornetstinger · 21 Jun 2023 at 20:47

Used AVR vs Budget Soundbar

Hiya, I'm about to buy a new TV a 65" S95B it's a huge upgrade over my previous set but now I'm wondering about getting a Soundsystem to match or atleast improve over the inbuilt speakers. But I'm really not an Audio person, I mostly just use my XM3 earbuds so the world of home cinema is...

www.avforums.com

thisisthecount · 21 Jun 2023 at 23:20

lucid said:
Save the £250 and get the 7100. Despite being 50Hz it's not that far off the 8000 performance and is actually a bit better than the 8000 for gaming.

The rear speakers on the 930 are wired, so while the walls are still open you should run the speaker wire for them.

Like the idea of the £250 saving, so this is fairly good price? https://www.samsung.com/uk/tvs/uhd-4k-tv/cu7100-85-inch-ue85cu7100kxxu/
Regarding the 930 - Oh damn, ‍

I can't see any reference here to them being wired when this guy unboxing? are you sure?

lucid · 22 Jun 2023 at 01:43

thisisthecount said:
Like the idea of the £250 saving, so this is fairly good price? https://www.samsung.com/uk/tvs/uhd-4k-tv/cu7100-85-inch-ue85cu7100kxxu/
Regarding the 930 - Oh damn, ‍ I can't see any reference here to them being wired when this guy unboxing? are you sure?

TV price; I was comparing the two Currys prices since you linked to them. Personally, if I was to buy retail then I'd look at John Lewis or Richer Sounds.They throw in longer warranties, 5- and 6-years respectfully. You'll make your own choice though.

Sound bar rear speakers; I read wired in a spec somewhere. From the look of the video though they do look wireless, so I wonder if they should make written "mains powered" rather than wired?

Anyway, if wireless then it will make installation that much easier. Just make sure there are power sockets close enough.

hornetstinger · 22 Jun 2023 at 08:38

For Sale - Q acoustics 5.1 set /BK subwoofer/stands

Due to downgrade selling my immaculate Q acoustic 5.1 speaker set including q acoustic stands , wall brackets and B&K XLS200 MK2 . The set is pick up only as I have no boxes for it.

www.avforums.com

Another

From that Samsung review, it's all cheap plastic junk. When he was moving the surrounds about they sounded holllow.

Kenai · 22 Jun 2023 at 08:57

If you know anyone with a Costco membership, the Samsung UE85CU7110KXXU, which appears to be all but identical to the UE85CU7100KXXU as far as I can tell, is available for £1369.99 at the moment (possibly online only)

BF-Bert · 22 Jun 2023 at 11:37

hornetstinger said:
For Sale - Q acoustics 5.1 set /BK subwoofer/stands

Due to downgrade selling my immaculate Q acoustic 5.1 speaker set including q acoustic stands , wall brackets and B&K XLS200 MK2 . The set is pick up only as I have no boxes for it.

www.avforums.com

Another

From that Samsung review, it's all cheap plastic junk. When he was moving the surrounds about they sounded holllow.

Funnily enough every speaker I've ever had has been hollow.

kitfit1 · 22 Jun 2023 at 11:53

BF-Bert said:
Funnily enough every speaker I've ever had has been hollow.

Yep, it's something that i have noticed over the years as well. To make shure, i just checked my Spendor A9's. They are defo hollow, but not only that, both of them have got huge ports on the bottom rear...................maybe they are there to allow easy access for mice to overwinter in ? :eek:

thisisthecount · 22 Jun 2023 at 23:05

Kenai said:
If you know anyone with a Costco membership, the Samsung UE85CU7110KXXU, which appears to be all but identical to the UE85CU7100KXXU as far as I can tell, is available for £1369.99 at the moment (possibly online only)

I think I"m starting to warm to the UE85CU7110KXXU. (Amazon have it for £1,449) The research I've done points out the main differences in this 2023 version vs the 2022 UE85CU7100KXXU =

https://amzn.eu/d/adkSQ1a. (£599)
Why would the ZF be that much more? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Q930B-Soundbar-Speaker-Built/dp/B09VQPPKZG/ref=sr_1_1

Both the Samsung UE85CU7110KXXU and the Samsung UE85CU7100KXXU have a native refresh rate of 60Hz. However, the UE85CU7110KXXU can support a variable refresh rate (VRR) of up to 120Hz, while the UE85CU7100KXXU can only support a VRR of up to 60Hz. This means that the UE85CU7110KXXU can display smoother motion when playing games that support VRR.

Processor: The UE85CU7110KXXU has a newer processor, the Quantum 4K Processor Lite, while the UE85CU7100KXXU has the older Quantum Processor 4K.
HDR: The UE85CU7110KXXU supports HDR10+, while the UE85CU7100KXXU only supports HDR10.
HDMI ports: The UE85CU7110KXXU has four HDMI ports, while the UE85CU7100KXXU only has three.
Price: The UE85CU7110KXXU is slightly more expensive than the UE85CU7100KXXU.

Regarding the soundbars, since the Q930B is completely wireless + you get rear speakers, and I would "hope" it sounds as good as or better than the Q800C/XU? but also I'd be gutted if it wasn't better than the : SAMSUNG HW-Q600C/XU 3.1.2

https://www.currys.co.uk/products/samsung-hwq600cxu-3.1.2-wireless-sound-bar-with-dolby-atmos-10248397.html

Here's my justification for the Q930B:

hornetstinger · 22 Jun 2023 at 23:27

Powe ratings will be inflated.

Also more speakers doesn't mean better sound quality. My stereo speakers will sound better than that top end samsung soundbar. If you really want 9.1.4 then buy this

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 HCP 7.1.4 Speaker Package, Black at AV.com

www.av.com

No dsp nonsense needed to have fake reflective 9.1.4
That will totally obliterate Samsung for sound and build quality.

Also those are just marketing buzzwords. A stereo hifi is analogue. No spacefit surround, no SRS. Nothing. But it'll sound better.

hornetstinger · 22 Jun 2023 at 23:29

As for TV,.if this is for movies and TV series get oled

lucid · 23 Jun 2023 at 03:26

thisisthecount said:
Both the Samsung UE85CU7110KXXU and the Samsung UE85CU7100KXXU have a native refresh rate of 60Hz. However, the UE85CU7110KXXU can support a variable refresh rate (VRR) of up to 120Hz, while the UE85CU7100KXXU can only support a VRR of up to 60Hz. This means that the UE85CU7110KXXU can display smoother motion when playing games that support VRR.

You might want to doublecheck the user manual on this. Download the e-Manual in pdf format, then search for VRR, then follow the link to 'Using FreeSync'

This is a bit sly of Samsung, but they've included reference to features that are only supported in other models. If you look at the manual as I've described then this is what you'll read:

Using FreeSync

The FreeSync feature allows you to play seamless games without video interruption or delay. To use the FreeSync feature, activate the FreeSync feature from the external device.

• Models that support FreeSync Premium Pro

– QN9**C, QN8**C, QN7**C, QN95C, QN90C, QN85C, Q8*C (except for 50-inch model), Q7*C, S90C, S95C

These are all models with a native 100Hz/120Hz refresh rate panel. The 'CU'-series isn't listed. Sorry, but there's no point pretending that a 60Hz max refresh rate panel can be pushed to support 120Hz. It can't.

thisisthecount · 23 Jun 2023 at 11:16

lucid said:
You might want to doublecheck the user manual on this. Download the e-Manual in pdf format, then search for VRR, then follow the link to 'Using FreeSync'

This is a bit sly of Samsung, but they've included reference to features that are only supported in other models. If you look at the manual as I've described then this is what you'll read:

These are all models with a native 100Hz/120Hz refresh rate panel. The 'CU'-series isn't listed. Sorry, but there's no point pretending that a 60Hz max refresh rate panel can be pushed to support 120Hz. It can't.

Sorry this is getting out of my knowledge realm - are you saying neither of these then based on no VRR?

lucid · 23 Jun 2023 at 14:57

thisisthecount said:
Sorry this is getting out of my knowledge realm - are you saying neither of these then based on no VRR?

Not at all.

You gave some justifications for buying the 7110 instead of the 7100. One of those points was support for VRR up to 120Hz. I'm not sure what you've seen or read or been told, but when I read your comment my immediate thought was 'how can a native 60Hz panel support 120Hz in game mode, and if it can do 120Hz, then why wouldn't it be able to do 120Hz with video?" The numbers didn't add up. Knowing how manufacturers play fast and loose with product descriptions to make it seem like you're getting more than you really are I thought I'd check into this.

When I read up, I found what I expected. VRR isn't fully supported, either in FreeSync or GSync variants. In fact, Samsung's own specifications pages for the 7100 and the 7110 both have 'No' next to FreeSync and GSync.

Just to be absolutely clear then, neither of the 85" TVs support VRR. That's not a reason to dismiss them. It's just that on this particular point the information you might have got from some source other than Samsung direct looks to be in error.

Whilst we're here clearing things up, you said in post #50 that the 7110 has four HDMI ports. According to Samsung's spec web page there are three ports. Also, you listed HDR10+ mode as a spec difference too. Both the 7100 and the 7110 support HDR10+. It also appears that the CU7000 supports HDR10+ too.

None of this means that you shouldn't choose the 7110 over the 7100, particularly if you can get it via Costco at the price that @Kenai mentioned in post #47.

I'm still of the opinion that the Sony 75" XR75X90K for £1,500 is a substantially better TV all round, but you wrote "I've had to commit to the calling already". I've still no idea what that actually means, but I'm guessing you've told someone you're having an 85", and it's too late to back down even with some strong picture quality and gaming justifications, so c'est la vie as the French say.

thisisthecount · 23 Jun 2023 at 15:19

lucid said:
Not at all.

You gave some justifications for buying the 7110 instead of the 7100. One of those points was support for VRR up to 120Hz. I'm not sure what you've seen or read or been told, but when I read your comment my immediate thought was 'how can a native 60Hz panel support 120Hz in game mode, and if it can do 120Hz, then why wouldn't it be able to do 120Hz with video?" The numbers didn't add up. Knowing how manufacturers play fast and loose with product descriptions to make it seem like you're getting more than you really are I thought I'd check into this.

When I read up, I found what I expected. VRR isn't fully supported, either in FreeSync or GSync variants. In fact, Samsung's own specifications pages for the 7100 and the 7110 both have 'No' next to FreeSync and GSync.

Just to be absolutely clear then, neither of the 85" TVs support VRR. That's not a reason to dismiss them. It's just that on this particular point the information you might have got from some source other than Samsung direct looks to be in error.

Whilst we're here clearing things up, you said in post #50 that the 7110 has four HDMI ports. According to Samsung's spec web page there are three ports. Also, you listed HDR10+ mode as a spec difference too. Both the 7100 and the 7110 support HDR10+. It also appears that the CU7000 supports HDR10+ too.

None of this means that you shouldn't choose the 7110 over the 7100, particularly if you can get it via Costco at the price that @Kenai mentioned in post #47.

I'm still of the opinion that the Sony 75" XR75X90K for £1,500 is a substantially better TV all round, but you wrote "I've had to commit to the calling already". I've still no idea what that actually means, but I'm guessing you've told someone you're having an 85", and it's too late to back down even with some strong picture quality and gaming justifications, so c'est la vie as the French say.

that's right, on the 85" - all the cabling is already done for the 85" so I have committed and I really don't want to mess them about...

So I think... sounds like the 7110 won't be a disappointment?
Amazon isn't far off:

https://amzn.eu/d/faetHzQ

Same price for a ue85bu8000? What would you choose out of the two? Since they are roughly the same - put aside the fact John Lewis will give me a better warrantee?

Samsung UE85BU8000 (2022) HDR 4K Ultra HD Smart TV, 85 inch with TVPlus, Black

Buy Samsung UE85BU8000 (2022) HDR 4K Ultra HD Smart TV, 85 inch with TVPlus, Black from our View All TVs range at John Lewis & Partners. Free Delivery on orders over £50.

www.johnlewis.com

lucid · 23 Jun 2023 at 18:03

thisisthecount said:
that's right, on the 85" - all the cabling is already done for the 85" so I have committed and I really don't want to mess them about...

So I think... sounds like the 7110 won't be a disappointment?
Amazon isn't far off:

https://amzn.eu/d/faetHzQ
Same price for a ue85bu8000? What would you choose out of the two? Since they are roughly the same - put aside the fact John Lewis will give me a better warrantee?

Samsung UE85BU8000 (2022) HDR 4K Ultra HD Smart TV, 85 inch with TVPlus, Black

Buy Samsung UE85BU8000 (2022) HDR 4K Ultra HD Smart TV, 85 inch with TVPlus, Black from our View All TVs range at John Lewis & Partners. Free Delivery on orders over £50.

www.johnlewis.com

The cables being in place shouldn't be a major obstacle to choosing a different TV, or at.least not if they've been installed with some play which you'll need while hooking up.

Re: BU8000, you'll need to do your own homework on this. It's normal for lower numbers and earlier letters in the alphabet to indicate earlier models or lower models in a range. B comes before C.

We've already done the 7000 vs 8000 comparison. Go back and have a read again why I recommended the 7000. If your requirements have changed significantly since that was written the tell us what changes have been made.

thisisthecount · 23 Jun 2023 at 19:12

I think I mostly wanted a 85” really

Gray2233 · 23 Jun 2023 at 19:16

Just an aside, if you've never installed a TV of that size before I'd either pay someone to do it for you or make sure you have a person or two to help.

Modern TV's are very thin and quite fragile, while being light weight they can be very unwieldy due to the size, the last thing you want is for the thing to snap or buckle on you.

Honestly if I was going to that size I'd be tempted to install a projector instead.

thisisthecount · 23 Jun 2023 at 19:24

Gray2233 said:
Just an aside, if you've never installed a TV of that size before I'd either pay someone to do it for you or make sure you have a person or two to help.

Modern TV's are very thin and quite fragile, while being light weight they can be very unwieldy due to the size, the last thing you want is for the thing to snap or buckle on you.

Honestly if I was going to that size I'd be tempted to install a projector instead.

Hi @Gray2233 - yep, hoping the electrician might help me that said, I really want to get the strongest slimmest to the wall as I don’t want it too proud to the wall but don’t know where to start as there seems to be soooooooo many brackets out there!