Hero stabbed to death after chasing muggers who stole woman's bag

Looks like there are a lot of people here who would just stand there while 2 men rob a woman...

The question you guys should be asking is not "why chase them for a bag" but "why would the 2 guys KILL for a bag", especially when it is likely any credit cards etc would have been cancelled before they could take any money.
 
Looks like there are a lot of people here who would just stand there while 2 men rob a woman...

The question you guys should be asking is not "why chase them for a bag" but "why would the 2 guys KILL for a bag", especially when it is likely any credit cards etc would have been cancelled before they could take any money.

They didn't kill for the bag though otherwise they would have stabbed the woman.

They killed to escape.
 
Remind me again why that is not a red herring because the murder weapon or suicide technique used is irrelevant?



Try reading what I was quoting: you said that firearms were mostly used safely. In order to justify that, you would have to say how many times they had been used in deaths where a person was not defending someone or something. If these figures are low then your argument is valid. Since to the best of my knowledge they are more than ten times the number of people shot whilst committing an offence, it would suggest your argument has a major flaw.



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The more important question is would making guns more available make more people murderers than are now, and the answer is exactly the same... The violence level of a society is not a function of the number of weapons available.

Would Oswald have been able to assasinate Kennedy with a knife? You can't ignore the fact that guns allow murders that would be impossible otherwise because of their long range and accuracy that no other weapons have. Obviously someone with criminal intent may be able to illegally acquire a weapon, but a person with no criminal intent may kill someone with their gun due to provocation when they otherwise would not have had the ability to commit the act, eg Anthony martin.
 
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I'm not especially eager to go down the road, but given the alternative (Criminals having weapons and everyone else not doing so) it seems the best solution.

Still not convinced and there's always the possibility that rather than making it better it could become worse as more criminals may feel the need to become armed to protect themselves so instead of many being armed it becomes most (I'm sure there are some who will always decline to carry weapons). For someone who argues against the population being allowed to determine policy because they're frequently irrational and easily led you seem to have fewer qualms about arming them.

I'm sure I don't need to say that I'm not in favour of criminals having illegal weapons but I think on balance I'm more scared of potentially the majority of people having a gun than just criminals having weapons. I meet far fewer criminals on a daily basis.

Unfortunately, we never had adequate protection from pointless legislation...

And this would be where you'd argue for a written constitution? If you don't trust the government of the day to write good legislation then why would you suspect they will write a constitution that is good enough? To me that's appears a harder task creating a comprehensive constitution than it is writing (good or bad) piecemeal legislation.

That particular risk is increased, but is the risk to the individual increased overall? Many studies suggest that it is, both in the US and in other countries.

Do you mean that the risk is not increased to the individual? If you don't then logically the argument would be a non-starter i.e. if carrying weapons increases the risk to the individual compared to the current situation then based on your evidential approach the law should not be increased.

The more important question is would making guns more available make more people murderers than are now, and the answer is exactly the same... The violence level of a society is not a function of the number of weapons available.

Although we may not have more murderers, firearms do make it easier to kill from distance and potentially to kill more people at any one time than weapons such as knives do. I'm not making an argument for or against guns here, just noting that they do have distinct advantages for killing multiple people.

It may however be interesting to compare accidental gun deaths to accidental knife deaths/poisonings/blunt weapons etc. As it could be that while we create no more murderers by legalising guns we do create a lot more accidental killers.

For god sake.

When someone chases and is attacked and dies, he is hailed a hero.
When someone chases and catches and defends himself he goes to prison for 3 yrs like Mr Hussain (remember the one who defended against armed burglars then chased em down and clobbered one over the head with a cricket bat?).

It wasn't self defence in Mr Hussain's case. If Mr Singh had chased down the muggers and then proceeded to beat them almost to death with his mates then I'd not be in any doubt that he deserved to go to jail also. However we don't know what he would have done on catching the thieves since he was unfortunately stabbed to death so at this point we've got to assume that he would have not acted outwith the law and administered his own retribution.
 
He's hardly a hero really. Brave and a little silly but not a hero.

Still, horrible that some people really think its OK to kill someone over a purse...

Heroic in my book.

Saw a stranger being robbed - would have been easier to ignore it.
Chased afer not one, but two robbers - would have been easier to ignore it.
When he caught up with them - he tried getting the bag back - would have been easier to ignore it.

It cost him his life, which is so very unfortunate.
 
I'm lucky enough to be able to carry a handgun and the laws are quite specific. You do an all day training course that goes over the legalities of different scenarios before they give you the permit. You can only use it if someone is at risk of bodily injury or death, and it goes on to specify exactly what that means (broken bones, knife wounds and so forth).

If I saw this happening I would not do anything other than try and get a good description of the criminal.
 
When someone chases and catches and defends himself he goes to prison for 3 yrs like Mr Hussain (remember the one who defended against armed burglars then chased em down and clobbered one over the head with a cricket bat?).

Mr Hussain went over the top and as much as I sympathise with him, I cannot say that his response was reasonable in the eyes of the law.
 
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