Hiking, backpacking, trekking, mountaineering...

Moses said:
I'm assuming you do a fair bit of walking in Scotland, so if you don't mind a random question or two... when/where are midges a problem in Scotland? I have vague memories of them from some summers up there as a child. And then what would you recommend as the top few/handful of walks to do when I move up to Edinburgh in the near future?
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Midges are bad down low and near water in the warmer months (were really bad at the campsite last weekend, at the foot of the pap) though when actually climbing hills, they have never been an issue. Camping at the bottom of them however... ;-)

Will you have a car? Some of the hills are remote and unable to be reached through public transport. I use walkhighlands for guides info etc. And then its just a case of picking somewhere, though you arent going to be spolied for choice.
 
I just got back from three days in Wasdale Head. It was supposed to be four, but the weather forecast for Thursday was so pretty bad and I had stuff to do at home so I cut it short. I managed Pillar, Great Gable and Scafell (not Pike) on the three days. Weather was, well, typical: cloud base varied from 200m to 500m if you were lucky, with lots of rain. Lots of people in the pub and campsites, not so many on the hills for some reason. OK, there may have been loads of people, but with 10-20m visibility I couldn't see them.

My personal high spot was on the way down from Scafell. At about 700m, and still well inside the clouds I ran into a man walking up what he thought was Scafell Pike. I should point out to the people who know the area that I was walking down to the south-east, towards Burnmoor Tarn. It turns out that he had set off for Scafell Pike via Lingmell, but taken a wrong turn pretty much the moment he left the car park. He was now well about two miles from where he was supposed to be, and going up the wrong hill. The best bit? His sole navigation tool was a picture on his phone of the poster in the car park showing where the walking paths were. That's it. When we briefly got onto maps he admitted that he had never learned to read one. At least he seemed to be dressed properly, so I guess he's probably still alive.

No pictures though, because: a) the weather was too bad to see much, and b) I set the camera wrong.
 
So just reading an article yesterday about the knowledge of how to read/use a map and compass is dying out as people are using their phones more, leading to people getting lost when their phone loses signal. It made me think..

1. Do you know how to properly use/read a map and compass? Do you adjust the declination of your compass to fit the location you’re in? Do you know how to triangulate, follow a bearing and know your stride length?

2. Do you have at least two forms of directional equipment with you when you go out? Be that a phone/GPS and compass, or two compasses, or other?

3. Have you ever been lost?

For me:

1. Yes - I spent several years being trained how to do it to make Geological maps, although I haven’t really done triangulation in the last decade as I haven’t really needed to, but did have a play a couple of weeks ago to refresh my skills.

2. Yes, be it a GPS and compass, or a compass and small emergency compass (plus phone usually). I normally have the latter attached to my bag at all times so it’s always there. I’ve had two decent compasses break on me so am very aware that compasses are not indistructable.

3. Yes (kind of). Not lost per-se, just having to make our own path through the forest as we couldn’t find the trail back. :p

We were in a Serbian national park, bought a (topographic) map with some tourist day hikes on. We decided to do one up the side of a forested hill to a viewpoint. After a few km of “cart track” we got to the start proper and had to spend about 20 minutes wandering around before we found the “trail” which was literally a few blazes on tree trunks, just close enough to see the next one. There was no actual trail, just a scramble of a couple of km up a steep, heavily wooded slope through long grass, moss and downed trees. We got to the top, looked at the view and started heading back down before realizing that the blazes seemed to be on only one side of the trees... We did a few circuits where the trail should have been but couldn’t see any sign of our tracks, or blazes, so we ended up making our own route down, using the shape of the hill and knowledge there was a gorge to the left of us to stop us from wandering too far down slope. It was a bit of fun, but did make me a little nervous as the weather was closing in and it was starting to get dark.

Other than that I’ve only had the usual missing an over grown trail and having to backtrack a little bit when you realize you’ve definitely gone past it.

So, anyone got any more interesting stories? :p
 
I was a Scout when I was younger and spent many years navigating with only a map and compass and it's given me a natural habit to look for landmarks when i'm out walking.

I've never heard of declination though

[Edit] I googled it, basically true north vs. magnetic north. I've only ever hiked in the UK where the variation is minimal anyway.
 
Amp34 said:
1. Do you know how to properly use/read a map and compass? Do you adjust the declination of your compass to fit the location you’re in? Do you know how to triangulate, follow a bearing and know your stride length?
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I can read a map, orient it in the right direction and navigate using landmarks when there's no path to follow.
I have a basic idea of what declination is but I've never bothered with it - I'm not even sure if my compass can do that. I can follow a bearing but I dont know what you mean by triangulate and I dont use stride length (mainly because I'm usually rolling rather than striding).

Amp34 said:
2. Do you have at least two forms of directional equipment with you when you go out? Be that a phone/GPS and compass, or two compasses, or other?
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Depends on the route/location. Sometimes on popular routes which have decent marked paths or following routes i've done before, i'll just memorise the route beforehand and go with no map (I'll have my phone with me though).
In isolated places where there's a chance of getting lost, i'll have phone + GPS + map + compass.

Amp34 said:
3. Have you ever been lost?
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Not really, no. I've second-guessed the map a couple of times and been wrong. There's a landrover track up one side of a hill which abruptly ends and an opposing landrover doing the same the other direction with 5k of nothing between them? Surely there's a path between them. Maybe just not marked because it's a bit vague or something? Nope! There's absolutely nothing there but bog.

I crossed a high plateau in the Cairngorms once in very thick cloud with visibility at just a few metres with no path to follow. I was dragging my bike and had the GPS on the handlebar. I would get my bearing off the GPS and try to walk in a straight line about 10-15metres then check my progress. Every time I would have deviated off-course by up to 90degrees! Not always the same direction either. I just couldnt keep my bearing without any visible landmarks. It's easy to see how people can get really lost without the right equipment.
 
Amp34 said:
So just reading an article yesterday about the knowledge of how to read/use a map and compass is dying out as people are using their phones more, leading to people getting lost when their phone loses signal. It made me think..

1. Do you know how to properly use/read a map and compass? Do you adjust the declination of your compass to fit the location you’re in? Do you know how to triangulate, follow a bearing and know your stride length?

2. Do you have at least two forms of directional equipment with you when you go out? Be that a phone/GPS and compass, or two compasses, or other?

3. Have you ever been lost?
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1. I plan on doing the ML award so I'd like to think my nav is pretty decent. I got the Pete Cliff Mountain Navigation book years ago, it taught me loads.

2. It depends where I'm going. If it's somewhere well trodden that I know well, or a fairly accessible mountain crag I probably wouldn't take a map, the compass is usually in my bag though. If it's somewhere a bit more remote, or a route I don't know too well, I'd have a map. My phone is always with me which has Viewranger and the OS maps installed.

3. I don't think I've ever properly been lost. I've gone off route a few times and had plenty of epics though! :D I was out climbing a couple winters ago with the missus and under estimated how long the route would take her. We ended up topping out in darkness and the fog came in which made our head torches pretty useless. There were a few nasty drops on the descent path too which made it a bit sketchy getting off the mountain. I ended up getting us to a stream and figured if we followed that down it would get us to the path at the bottom. It was quite slow progress but ended up getting down OK. She was less than impressed. :D
 
I can navigate with a map and compass, harking back to the days of D of E. I have a practice every now and then when I'm out for a walk. Majority of the time I rely on my phone with OS maps downloaded so no signal required, just because it's easier.

Always carry phone and paper map/compass even on short/local walks. You never know when it might come in handy to help others out etc...

Never been truly lost. Did go for my first walk in the Berwyns last December and underestimated how long it would take to cross some of the tops as there was quite a bit of snow on the ground and thick fog. Could have navigated us down quite easily if it got dicey but we ploughed on. The gf (now ex) didn't enjoy herself :p
 
Never been lost as in "don't have a clue where we are" lost. Have gone off the intended route where paths are unclear but always got back on track. Have come off the Edale side of Kinder Scout in the dark, having under-estimated how slow some of the group would be that day (even having expected to be slower than usual). Schoolboy error #3 - hadn't packed a torch that day either :rolleyes:

Spent many hours in Scouts route planning with compass bearings, distances and the like. Use ViewRanger on my phone a fair bit these days (love the tile based mapping) but always have the 1:25k OS + compass if going for more than stroll.
 
I have done a couple of things lately. I had visited Pen-y-Fan before but decided to return to do Cribyn as well. Great weather and it was the first time I have used hiking poles and found they really took the strain out of coming down as it can be quite steep in places and you can't help but put a lot of pressure on your legs.


I had a go at Tryfan down in the Ogwen valley as well.
I checked over a brief route outline before setting off but personally I don't believe this is a climb for a novice. There is plenty of loose rock you need to be aware of from other climbers and yourself. I found the climb itself not too bad but I made some big mistakes on this one. I got up all the way to the North Tower and kept on following the path round, I would later find out this was a big mistake, I found myself on some pretty tough rock where one slip would have been the end.

I kept climbing up until I reached a point where I perhaps could have continued but it was stupid to risk it so I made the decision to lower myself down to lower ground which was pretty scary stuff. By the time I walked back to the North Tower my hands were cut up and I was completely out of water so decided to head down. My second mistake was not remembering the exact route I had taken. I kept lowering myself down to what I thought was a path but ended up being very tight ledges with massive drops at the end of them. Having to pull yourself back up almost vertical terrain with little more than plant roots to hold you on to the mountain is not much fun.

When I came back I checked some route details and read this “Often people won’t like the look of the North Tower and will try to go around it. This may result in them either heading along the eastern traverse - also know as the ‘climbers’ traverse’ - and ending up in more serious ground like North Gully. That is exactly what I did. Hopefully I will return to this one with a new found respect for this mountain now I am more aware of the terrain and challenges, I was so close! :o)


I am hoping to go back mid October to try this one again now I am a bit more prepared and have carefully studied routes, also google Earth 3D helps a lot :) If I don't get the weather for it I might go up Carnedd Llewellyn instead.
 
The-Plethora said:
If I don't get the weather for it I might go up Carnedd Llewellyn instead.
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Well worth it. Back in end of July me and a mate walked from Aber falls, up Drum, Foel Fras, Foel Grach, Carnedd Llewellyn and camped by Ffynnon Llugwy on the other side. 14.5 miles and 4200 feet of climbing :D Took it easy, stopped for a while on most of the summits and even sat just below the summit of Llewellyn for about an hour in the sun with a beer. Weather was great, not often you get to sit in a t-shirt almost 1000ft up and be too warm!

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The plan was to go back a similar way the next day but go down via the Bera's. Instead it was torrential rain and heavy winds so it would have been stupid to climb back up Llewellyn with full packs so we walked down to Bethesda and got the bus back :p :o

Oh yeah, and over the course of the entire first day we saw less than 5 people. Some other mates went up Snowdon the same day and all paths were just big queues...
 
Yes I like the look of that as it is a bit quieter. I have been checking out the maps and I see a road / path going to near the base but not sure it is open for public access, was it possible to park near the big lake? From what I see there is a bit of a scramble required at one part but nothing too concerning. I was hoping (if we did that route) to do Carnedd Llewellyn, over to Carnedd Daffyd, then Pen Yr Ole Wen. Not sure weather to head straight back the same way after that as I have seen videos that show Pen Yr Ole wen, particularly the bit near the road (if we went down that way) is really steep. Thanks for the info.
 
Yes there was a road all the way up to that lake, I assume an access/service road and iirc none of the gates were locked. Don't take my word for that though.. :p

Doing a loop down to the A5 and back up Pen Yr Ole Wen was my original intention for day 2 but after some research it sounded a bit too much of a scramble for big bags. Plus it was a fair old walk from the lake to the Ogwen Centre! If you happen to walk between the centre and that lake I strongly recommend not taking the path north of Ogwen lake just walk along the road. It took us absolutely ages, even back in July it was mostly a bog with no definitive path. It looks like they've been trying to put stepping stones in over a lot of it but it's nowhere near done.
 
The-Plethora said:
I have done a couple of things lately. I had visited Pen-y-Fan before but decided to return to do Cribyn as well. .
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Camped near Pen Y Fan a few months ago. On the edge of the (now drained) Neuadd Reservoir just south of Cribyn.
Then the next day walked up and along Fan Y Big and south along the ridge.. First time there and it was fantastic.
Don't really do fires but the stones were already there where someone had obviously previous camped and just found a few dead branches and twigs and had a fire for an hour or two.

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What a difference a day makes..

Did the next section of the south west coast path this weekend.. Saturday was allegedly the hardest bit.. Hartland Quay to Bude.. it was pretty hard work like 15 miles over which my watch tells me I covered 275 flights of stairs..

Weather good enough for sunburn though..

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Then the next day was supposed to be another killer, Bude to Boscastle.. then this happened.. so we wound up on a bus back to the car. I don't mind being wet so much but it was hard to stay upright even on the flat bits it was so muddy.. shame after driving all the way down there but still loving the path :)

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Street said:
The old path running alongside the A5 is deceptively long! I've walked from Capel Curig up to Ogwen a few times and always forget how long it takes..
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We walked from the campsite about halfway along and yeah the bit south of the A5 while easy going felt very long but the bit round the top of Ogwen.. Thought I was going to die out there :p Don't think I've ever made such slow progress on foot before.. Then we walked all the way down the old road to Bethesda.. Long ass walk in torential rain!
 
Amp34 said:
So just reading an article yesterday about the knowledge of how to read/use a map and compass is dying out as people are using their phones more, leading to people getting lost when their phone loses signal. It made me think..

1. Do you know how to properly use/read a map and compass? Do you adjust the declination of your compass to fit the location you’re in? Do you know how to triangulate, follow a bearing and know your stride length?

2. Do you have at least two forms of directional equipment with you when you go out? Be that a phone/GPS and compass, or two compasses, or other?

3. Have you ever been lost?
Click to expand...

1) No. I really should, and if we are going walks in the winter then it is definitely something I want to be able to do. Generally we only go walks on nice days, and most of them have a well defined route that is easy enough to follow.

2) Usually two or more phones + extra battery packs etc, but thats about it.

3) Lost, no. Not where I was supposed to be, yes.

We were going to spend the night at Peanmeanach Bothy. As we were planning on staying the night, we left later than we usually would and since we also take our dog with us we always carry our tent in case there is no room/other dogs in the bothy. We arrived about and hour and a half before dusk, and started walking.

There was a point along the trail, that looked like the path we were meant to take carried on, and a water run coming down the hill. We followed the 'Path' and soon got quite a way off track. Instead of turning round and heading back, we soldiered on until dusk fell. Then we found a likely spot to camp, and settled in for the night.

Yellow is approx where we ended up, blue is the path we were supposed to take. We should have got much further but with their being no trail and lots of trees etc, we got really slowed down.

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Still though, found a nice place to camp for the night
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