Hive, really??

Hi all, thanks for the help thus far!

I have had to put the old WP1 back onto the system as I run out of time and the other half wanted working heating. So the system is back as it was and is now working OK.

I was surprised that adding the Hive unit was such a pain. In theory all I had to do was replace my UP2 controller with the Hive controller and then combine the live and switched live from my WP1. It did not seem that hard!

With regards to the valves going from A -> B... I never knew these valves existed, so did not check them. When I have a second go at the install next week I will see how they behave when I press the heating button on the Hive controller.

So next weekend...

1) Re-install the Hive controller.
2) Check if the valve is moving A->B when the heating demand button is pressed.
3) Check for voltage at point 12 (what am I looking for 12V, 230V?)
4) Anything else?


Thanks again.
 
Hi all, thanks for the help thus far!

I have had to put the old WP1 back onto the system as I run out of time and the other half wanted working heating. So the system is back as it was and is now working OK.

I was surprised that adding the Hive unit was such a pain. In theory all I had to do was replace my UP2 controller with the Hive controller and then combine the live and switched live from my WP1. It did not seem that hard!

With regards to the valves going from A -> B... I never knew these valves existed, so did not check them. When I have a second go at the install next week I will see how they behave when I press the heating button on the Hive controller.

So next weekend...

1) Re-install the Hive controller.
2) Check if the valve is moving A->B when the heating demand button is pressed.
3) Check for voltage at point 12 (what am I looking for 12V, 230V?)
4) Anything else?


Thanks again.

Personally I'd be removing the programmer and the old wireless controller. All you need at the Hive is a permanent live and neutral and then you need a HTG ON and DHW ON wire.

Those 5 core flexible cables will have enough cores for that.

Take your permanent live, neutral and earth from the heating joint and connect your switch wires to the brown valve wire in the joint box respectively for the heating and hot water valves.

That's all you need to do.
 
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Your heating joint box is one of those semi installed ones that come with the cylinder. They're handy because they have plenty of termination points for all the cables.

Normally when I wire a central heating they won't provide those due to cost so I have to just install them in a moulded box with a strip of connector blocks.

Anyway here is how I terminate a heating joint for a standard S plan heating when just using a strip of connector blocks. Obviously if you have a pre installed joint box them the termination numbers might be different but the function remains the same.

1. All of the earths
2. Neutral from boiler, programmer, heating valve (blue), water valve (blue), thermostat
3. Permanent live from boiler, programmer, heating valve (grey), water valve (grey)
4. Switch wire to boiler, heating valve (orange), water valve (orange)
5. Programmer DHW , water valve (brown) via the cylinder stat (very important)
6. Programmer HTG, thermostat live
7. Thermostat switch, heating valve (brown)

If you don't have a wired thermostat then just connect HTG ON to heating valve (brown) and ignore any thermostat connections on the list.

Your DHW ON must be connected to the cylinder stat, this is important as the cylinder will just kettle itself otherwise. From the cylinder stat it connects to the DHW valve (brown).

Any HIVE or NEST connection hub will just be replacing the programmer in any kind of heating setup so I hope this helps.
 
Personally I'd be removing the programmer and the old wireless controller. All you need at the Hive is a permanent live and neutral and then you need a HTG ON and DHW ON wire.

Those 5 core flexible cables will have enough cores for that.

Take your permanent live, neutral and earth from the heating joint and connect your switch wires to the brown valve wire in the joint box respectively for the heating and hot water valves.

That's all you need to do.

I think that is what i did...

I removed the old programmer and replaced it with the Hive. The Hive was powered from the juntion box by a live, neutral and earth. Ports 3 and 4 were also used with HW on and HTG on (may be the other way around, i don't recall). As the Hive is a direct replacement for the UP2 I did not fiddle with the wiring. Just put the new programmer in place.

I disconnect the WP1 wireless unit and as advised I joined the HTG Brown and HTG On wires in the junction box to provide a live signal.

I did not make any changes to the Hot water wiring as this was not affected by the WP1.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Thanks
 
I think that is what i did...

I removed the old programmer and replaced it with the Hive. The Hive was powered from the juntion box by a live, neutral and earth. Ports 3 and 4 were also used with HW on and HTG on (may be the other way around, i don't recall). As the Hive is a direct replacement for the UP2 I did not fiddle with the wiring. Just put the new programmer in place.

I disconnect the WP1 wireless unit and as advised I joined the HTG Brown and HTG On wires in the junction box to provide a live signal.

I did not make any changes to the Hot water wiring as this was not affected by the WP1.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Thanks
You might need to check the terminations inside the UP2 Programmer. They may be different to what the Hive requires.

Hive needs (from left to right) N. Neutral, L. Live, 3. DHW ON, 4. HTG ON.

Some programmers might have heating and water in different terminals so it's not always a case of pulling the old one off and leaving the wires in place.

If you have a multimeter or combi testers you can check which core comes from the heating joint box to each terminal and swap them if necessary.

Just look at the list of terminations that I posted. Obviously different sparks may wire them in different order and you have a pre-installed box but the function of each connection should remain the same.
 
Effectively all of the thermostats and programmers are just fancy switches.

Once you have all of the permanent lives and neutrals sorted you will just be left with switch wires.

Generally a heating works like this.

Boiler spur live > programmer HTG switch > thermostat > heating valve > boiler switch on.

Boiler spur live > programmer DHW switch > cylinder stat > water valve > boiler switch on.

If you can understand how each device switches the next one on before the boiler fires up then it should be easier to fix faults and make alterations to the heating set-up
 
I have a WB Greenstar Junior 24i boiler with a standard WB wireless stat. How easy would it be to install a Hive on this set up?
 
The front receiver plate in the middle of the boiler needs disconnecting, or better still removing and putting the blank back in. Then wire up the hive receiver into the boiler terminals inside the boiler electrical cover.
Easy if you know what you're doing ;)
 
The front receiver plate in the middle of the boiler needs disconnecting, or better still removing and putting the blank back in. Then wire up the hive receiver into the boiler terminals inside the boiler electrical cover.
Easy if you know what you're doing ;)
As an electrical engineer im sure I can work that bit out ;) Just wanted to know if it would have issues or not.
 
Cool, the only thing you might lose is the ability to time the dhw preheat. But that depends on the type of WB receiver that's built into the front fascia. I can't see any way to use the dhw channel of the hive to time the preheat on your model of boiler, unless WB technical tell you otherwise.
 
Yes, the boiler sends out 240 on Ls, and the switch (hive) sends 240 back to Lr. You do need to disconnect the inbuilt receiver. If you don't have the blank that came with the boiler then just disconnect the ribbon cable and neatly tuck it inside leaving the dead receiver still in place.
 
You might need to check the terminations inside the UP2 Programmer. They may be different to what the Hive requires.

Hive needs (from left to right) N. Neutral, L. Live, 3. DHW ON, 4. HTG ON.

Some programmers might have heating and water in different terminals so it's not always a case of pulling the old one off and leaving the wires in place.

If you have a multimeter or combi testers you can check which core comes from the heating joint box to each terminal and swap them if necessary.

Just look at the list of terminations that I posted. Obviously different sparks may wire them in different order and you have a pre-installed box but the function of each connection should remain the same.


Thanks again for the info. I will grab a pen and paper and draw out my wiring to help me understand what is going on! Be prepared for a pretty picture!

cheers
 
OK Sirs, here is a diagram of my boiler wiring. Hopefully it makes sense. The diagram shows the key wires going to the junction. The common Earth, Lives and Neutrals that attach to the mains power are shown as short lines at the bottom of the picture.

Wiring.jpg


To try to install my Hive controller I made the following modifications:

1) Directly replaced the old UP2 controller with the Hive.
2) Moved the red link 9 to 3 so it goes 9 to 4
3) Removed the red link 2 to 4
4) Removed all the wiring to the WP1.

Note, the back plate of the UP2 (which I did not change) is wired (from left to right)..

1) Neutral
2) Live
3) Blank
4) Blank
5) Black
6) Grey

So how do I make my Hive work?

Thanks!!
 
As long as there are no faults with the system, and you haven't made any mistakes, it should work with how you have installed it.
The unknown 'mains cable' on the RH side of your diagram goes to the cylinder thermostat.

Mick
 
May as well jump in on this thread. I've got a Worcester 28SiII boiler installed in 2003 with a terrible thermostat and I want to install a smart thermostat to control it better. It doesn't have to be Hive, but I would like something Alexa compatible and if possible, easy to remove and take to a new property (I plan to sell up in the spring).

The main reason I want to switch is because the thermostat doesn't seem to work properly. I currently have the controller on the boiler set to come on in the morning and evening, but I'd like to have the option to leave it on and have it ticking along at a low temperature. Instead the heating turns off when it reaches the thermostat temperature but doesn't come back on when it goes back under which is a right PITA.

How straightforward (or not) is installing smart heating likely to be?

Pics of boiler, controller and thermostat
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pVDtOQt.jpg
 
The inbuilt clock needs to be disconnected, it clips off then you unplug the small ribbon cable then clip the clock back in place (it will be dead, but covers a hole). Then you need to run a cable from the connections on the boiler into your chosen smart stat receiver. L, N, E, Ls, Lr. Unwiring the Honeywell roomstat as you go.

Mick

Edit: leave the Honeywell stat and wiring in place, but unwired from the boiler, then it will be an easy job to reconnect when you move home.
 
As long as there are no faults with the system, and you haven't made any mistakes, it should work with how you have installed it.
The unknown 'mains cable' on the RH side of your diagram goes to the cylinder thermostat.

Mick

Thanks for the confirmation. The system works fine with the WP1. So i presume the boiler is fine!

I will try re-installing the Hive and this time I will look to see how the AB valves are behaving when I demand heating.
 
tl dr; hijack question

I have an old Worcester 24SI II, no thermostat in the house, its either on or off from the boiler switch, OR on timer, which doesn't work well at weekends when I want different running hours from evenings.

Whats the cheapest way to get a Hive fitted, and would it work with my old boiler so I can have specific hours for the heating to be on? Finally do you need a mainsplug nearby?
 
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