HMS Daring

Sparky191 · 3 Feb 2006 at 10:27

VaderDSL said:
How do these ships defend the fleet?

Say they are part of a battle group with a carrier at the heart, do they deploy these Anti-Aircraft/Anti-missile defense boats in a circle around the carrier, and then I assume they are all linked into the central command structure of the carrier with AWACS and long range radar/patrols sent out from the carrier.

Say this is the case and the carrier comes under attack from 5 exocet missiles (would exocet's be used nowadays? or is it more likely to be something else? like a harpoon (i'm reeling off random uninformed stuff from what I remember from games like LOMAC, F117 etc. )

How would these ships then defend the carrier? do they have tracking and missiles to be able to reliably take out any incoming fire?

Thats exactly how it works. The AEGIS works out which ship is the best placed and equipped to tackle each threat and uses that system to defeat the threat. It can tackle a multitude of threats simultaneously. The system was designed to defeat the Soviet strategy. Which was to overwhelm/saturate a defense system with so many threats that at least some of them get through. Sheer weight of numbers. The defense is layered, Aircraft like the F14/Hornet, Missiles then close in weapon systems like the Phalanx. Theres also an anti sub screen. Which is made up of ASW ships and hunter killer subs.

In the Falklands the ships got in each others way, only had missiles and little or poor close in systems. (due to budget cuts).

Visage · 3 Feb 2006 at 10:30

VaderDSL said:
How do these ships defend the fleet?

Say they are part of a battle group with a carrier at the heart, do they deploy these Anti-Aircraft/Anti-missile defense boats in a circle around the carrier, and then I assume they are all linked into the central command structure of the carrier with AWACS and long range radar/patrols sent out from the carrier.

Say this is the case and the carrier comes under attack from 5 exocet missiles (would exocet's be used nowadays? or is it more likely to be something else? like a harpoon (i'm reeling off random uninformed stuff from what I remember from games like LOMAC, F117 etc. )

How would these ships then defend the carrier? do they have tracking and missiles to be able to reliably take out any incoming fire?

They'll all be linked, using technologies such as Link 11 and Link 16, to create a RAP (recognised air picture). That way all the ships in the group have a clear picture of he airspace around the group.

Thatw ay the individual elements can concentrate on point and sector defense....

Stolly · 3 Feb 2006 at 10:37

VaderDSL said:
How do these ships defend the fleet?

Say they are part of a battle group with a carrier at the heart, do they deploy these Anti-Aircraft/Anti-missile defense boats in a circle around the carrier, and then I assume they are all linked into the central command structure of the carrier with AWACS and long range radar/patrols sent out from the carrier.

Say this is the case and the carrier comes under attack from 5 exocet missiles (would exocet's be used nowadays? or is it more likely to be something else? like a harpoon (i'm reeling off random uninformed stuff from what I remember from games like LOMAC, F117 etc. )

How would these ships then defend the carrier? do they have tracking and missiles to be able to reliably take out any incoming fire?

Correct, AA defense is a series of layers, think of an onion. The outer layer is aircraft ( an area where we have been somewhat lacking in the last decades) the middle layer might be SAM's launched from ships and the inner might be close in weapon systems like Phalanx or Goalkeeper.

Stolly · 3 Feb 2006 at 10:43

Sparky191 said:
Thats exactly how it works. The AEGIS works out which ship is the best placed and equipped to tackle each threat and uses that system to defeat the threat. It can tackle a multitude of threats simultaneously. The system was designed to defeat the Soviet strategy. Which was to overwhelm/saturate a defense system with so many threats that at least some of them get through. Sheer weight of numbers. The defense is layered, Aircraft like the F14/Hornet, Missiles then close in weapon systems like the Phalanx. Theres also an anti sub screen. Which is made up of ASW ships and hunter killer subs.

In the Falklands the ships got in each others way, only had missiles and little or poor close in systems. (due to budget cuts).

I read Sharkey Wards book the other week, very interesting. Especially the contrasting performance of the SHAR's from Invincible and Hermes. Dunno how much is truth and how much is Sharkey Wards embelishment, but it was interesting.

I do remember he mentioned that "getting in the way" did cost us one vessel, when the Sea Wolf system on one was suddenly masked by the superstructure of another vessel just as it was about to engage.

wordy · 3 Feb 2006 at 11:06

VaderDSL said:
How do these ships defend the fleet?

Say they are part of a battle group with a carrier at the heart, do they deploy these Anti-Aircraft/Anti-missile defense boats in a circle around the carrier, and then I assume they are all linked into the central command structure of the carrier with AWACS and long range radar/patrols sent out from the carrier.

Say this is the case and the carrier comes under attack from 5 exocet missiles (would exocet's be used nowadays? or is it more likely to be something else? like a harpoon (i'm reeling off random uninformed stuff from what I remember from games like LOMAC, F117 etc. )

How would these ships then defend the carrier? do they have tracking and missiles to be able to reliably take out any incoming fire?

Defense of a carrier, assault ship, fuel tanker (which are known as High Value Units) are usually conducted in a layered defense

You have 3 zones organised in rings spreading outwards from the HVU.

The outer most ring is called the Fighter Engagement Zone in which you have friendly aircraft operating and trying to intercept the threat.

Moving inwards you have the Cross Over zone this is where fighters pursuing the threat break off and move back out to the FEZ

The innermost zone is called the Missle Engagement Zone. Which as I'm sure you can guess is where ships anti aircraft weapons are brought to bear against any targets that made it past the fighters in the FEZ.

big_white_dog84 · 3 Feb 2006 at 11:24

As a point of interest - the PAAMS system on the type 45s provides area defence for a task group out to about 80nm IIRC. The Sea-Wolf system that is found on our type 22 and type 23s is for point defence. This means it can only intercept a target that is a direct threat to the ship the system is on.
All our bigger ships (including several RFAs, but excluding the type 23s) also have Goalkeeper or Phalanx Close-in Weapons systems. If you need these you are really in trouble.

Event Horizon · 3 Feb 2006 at 11:30

Nana said:
complete and utter waste of money so we can kill innocent people for more oil for Mr Bush, is it any wonder we are hated?

Apart from the fact that 50 million would have been spent on wages to build the ships, so that people can feed their families. We are hated because we build things that third world countries can SELL us fuel for.. dont really understand your trail of thoughts. Perhaps we should leave the middle east to crumble as they have nothing else to trade, they sure would have enough oil for their Toyota trucks then.

Von Smallhausen · 3 Feb 2006 at 11:44

I had a tear in my eye almost watching that launch. Hats off to the RN.

@ big white dog84, I work with a lad who was an ex-armourer in the RN and he was telling me about the close support weapons on the destroyer he worked on. If a missile gets too close then this radar guided multi barrelled rotary cannon kicks in and he said it's almost like ripping paper as the rate of fire is so high. The accuracy is phenomenal.

I love big boys toys like that.

Enfield · 3 Feb 2006 at 11:50

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4677038.stm

Bernard · 3 Feb 2006 at 11:50

Enfield said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4677038.stm

Shows they aren't just used for killing innocent people eh.

Nix · 3 Feb 2006 at 11:51

Enfield said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4677038.stm

lol, you were saying Nana?

Manlove is my forte · 3 Feb 2006 at 11:57

don't antagonise him. He will probably say it was still a waste of money and polluted the atmosphere. The money spent on this operation could have probably been better spent by giving it to dole scroungers

.

fatiain · 3 Feb 2006 at 12:01

Von Smallhausen said:
radar guided multi barrelled rotary cannon kicks in and he said it's almost like ripping paper as the rate of fire is so high. The accuracy is phenomenal

My dad worked on the very very very early development stages of that when he was in.

Von Smallhausen · 3 Feb 2006 at 12:04

fatiain said:
My dad worked on the very very very early development stages of that when he was in.

Wow. I am highly impressed by that.

Pat on the back for Admiral Sir fatiain Snr ( Ret )

Enfield · 3 Feb 2006 at 12:06

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1211215,00.html

Admiral Sir Alan West, Britain's first sea lord, has diverted a British warship, HMS Bulwark, to help in the rescue.

Still want to get rid of the navy?

fatiain · 3 Feb 2006 at 12:11

Von Smallhausen said:
Wow. I am highly impressed by that.

Pat on the back for Admiral Sir fatiain Snr ( Ret )

He made Lieutenant in the Fleet Air Arm after joining as a lowly engineering apprentice, (could have made Lt Cmndr if he stayed in) Radio and Radar was his speciality. (1944-1971).

He's got his sword and commission hanging on the wall, it'll be passed down to my boy eventually. I'm fiercly proud of what the old bugger has done for the country, he's got medals and everything!

Mr_L · 3 Feb 2006 at 12:14

My Dad did a bit of work for a display manufacturer, the sort that make stands for car shows and stuff like that. They made a stand for the RN and they wanted a life size and working version of one of the 114mm deck guns.

Anyway they made it and I was around when they tested this replica deck gun. It was that realistic that it moved as quickly as the real ones do. In fact, it was so quick the barrel came flying off and nearly took a small group of us out.

Not the real thing but still pretty impressive.

Sparky191 · 3 Feb 2006 at 12:26

Stolly said:
Correct, AA defense is a series of layers, think of an onion. ....

Just like an Ogre then?

wordy · 3 Feb 2006 at 12:27

Von Smallhausen said:
I had a tear in my eye almost watching that launch. Hats off to the RN.

@ big white dog84, I work with a lad who was an ex-armourer in the RN and he was telling me about the close support weapons on the destroyer he worked on. If a missile gets too close then this radar guided multi barrelled rotary cannon kicks in and he said it's almost like ripping paper as the rate of fire is so high. The accuracy is phenomenal.

I love big boys toys like that.

Goalkeeper sounds like a chainsaw when it fires, 4,200 rounds per minute of 30mm Tungsten steel ammuntion. Your mate is right about about being impressive when it fires

Also the 4.5' gun mounted on the front of the T45's are impressive aswell. The ones mounted on the T22 batch 3's were the MK 8 version. They are able to fire 27 rounds per minute out to a range of 14 nm. When standing on the Gun Direction Paltform during a gunnery excercise you used to feel the pressure squeezing your chest when they fired. As well as being flippin' loud

theleg · 3 Feb 2006 at 12:33

On a semi related note..Does anyone know how many F-35s we will be buying in total?