Hodge doesn't think we should send them back, but their homes shouldn't be that nice

Glaucus · 20 May 2007 at 18:24

dirtydog said:
Our membership of the EU doesn't permit us to do this for EU immigrants, which is what Hodge is talking about.

pull out of Europe and human rights, both of them are nothing but trouble.

Europe isn't a bad idea, it's just run by muppets, several countries (namely the newer ones) should never of got in, they haven't got the economics to join, the law and off course there plagued with bribery.

starscream · 20 May 2007 at 18:25

dirtydog said:
The native. No question.

Which begs the question, how many generations do you need to go back before in your eyes people are allowed to get social housing.

cleanbluesky · 20 May 2007 at 18:26

starscream said:
So who should get priority over a third generation immigrant whos whole family live in an area, and have 3 generations of contributing to that economy, verses a native Brit from a different part of the country who has just moved down.

3 generations of tax versus an entire lineage of tax?

Glaucus · 20 May 2007 at 18:27

starscream said:
Which begs the question, how many generations do you need to go back before in your eyes people are allowed to get social housing.

I think we should have a citizen test for immigrants, something along the lines of written and spoken language, key English history, basic politics, English law and culture.

Once that test is passed then they become equal to a native.

dirtydog · 20 May 2007 at 18:28

starscream said:
Which begs the question, how many generations do you need to go back before in your eyes people are allowed to get social housing.

I'm not sure. But giving it to first generation immigrants is outrageous. If an immigrant cannot afford to fully support himself financially then he has no business being here.

starscream · 20 May 2007 at 18:29

cleanbluesky said:
3 generations of tax versus an entire lineage of tax?

Do you seriously believe that peoples ability to get housing should be based on the conduct on their ancestors?

What about if they have a history of unemployment going back 10 generations?

dirtydog · 20 May 2007 at 18:29

AcidHell2 said:
I think we should have a citizen test for immigrants, something along the lines of written and spoken language, key English history, basic politics, English law and culture.

Once that test is passed then they become equal to a native.

I wouldn't support that. How could Johnny Foreigner pass an easy test and suddenly become equal with a native whose British bloodlines run centuries deep? No way

Glaucus · 20 May 2007 at 18:31

dirtydog said:
I wouldn't support that. How could Johnny Foreigner pass an easy test and suddenly become equal with a native whose British bloodlines run centuries deep? No way

at some point an immigrant has to become equal to a native. I would prefer a test, that they can speak and right English to at least gcse standard and have a grasp of English culture, law and politics.

Rather than saying there equal after 4 generation or what ever.

cleanbluesky · 20 May 2007 at 18:35

starscream said:
Do you seriously believe that peoples ability to get housing should be based on the conduct on their ancestors?

What about if they have a history of unemployment going back 10 generations?

No, I didn't suggest that ability or history of the individual paying tax should contribute to social housing eligibility either...

In fact, I don't agree with the idea, becasue immigration and social integration need to be addressed, not housing/nationality quota

Tinders · 20 May 2007 at 18:37

AcidHell2 said:
I think we should have a citizen test for immigrants, something along the lines of written and spoken language, key English history, basic politics, English law and culture.

Once that test is passed then they become equal to a native.

It would be interesting to see how many natives would pass that test!

I think the council housing setup needs serious reform, people shouldnt be able to buy and sell them 3 years after buying them, you shouldnt have a choice of where you get a house, you either need a house or dont.

starscream · 20 May 2007 at 18:40

AcidHell2 said:
at some point an immigrant has to become equal to a native. I would prefer a test, that they can speak and right English to at least gcse standard and have a grasp of English culture, law and politics.

Would you also support similar tests for people who are currently living and working in places like Iraq?

Glaucus · 20 May 2007 at 18:40

Tinders said:
It would be interesting to see how many natives would pass that test!

More than you would think, it's surprising how much you pick up. everyone has to do English upto gcse. Even if they don't attend school, they will still learn the language as it's there first and native language. Every native knows the English law (not all of it but the common ones).

The only one I could see English people failing is basic politics, which is a shame, why isn't it taught, it could easily be taught under history lessons.

starscream said:
Would you also support similar tests for people who are currently living and working in places like Iraq?

in what way english people working out there?
Yes, it's "there country" they can do what they want.

But I don't think it's really need, I don't think (I may be wrong) they have mass immigration, where the immigrants set up sub sections in cities, where you couldn't guess you where in England apart from every things priced in £

cleanbluesky · 20 May 2007 at 18:41

starscream said:
Would you also support similar tests for people who are currently living and working in places like Iraq?

If they're working, surely they can afford their own rent?

Are you under the mistaken impression that foreigners get treated like natives in the middle east?

dirtydog · 20 May 2007 at 18:43

AcidHell2 said:
More than you would think, it's surprising how much you pick up. everyone has to do English upto gcse. Even if they don't attend school, they will still learn the language as it's there first and native language. Every native knows the English law (not all of it but the common ones).

The only one I could see English people failing is basic politics, which is a shame, why isn't it taught, it could easily be taught under history lessons.

in what way english people working out there?
Yes, it's "there country" they can do what they want.

Without wishing to be rude, you are English yet you would fail an elementary English test yourself, looking at your posts. They're/there etc. An immigrant is not a native and should never get the same rights as a native, no matter what arbitrary test they can learn to pass.

starscream · 20 May 2007 at 18:43

Tinders said:
It would be interesting to see how many natives would pass that test!

I think the council housing setup needs serious reform, people shouldnt be able to buy and sell them 3 years after buying them, you shouldnt have a choice of where you get a house, you either need a house or dont.

I don't see why they should be sold at all. Are people who rent privately able to buy their houses at hugely discounted rates?

dirtydog · 20 May 2007 at 18:44

starscream said:
I don't see why they should be sold at all. Are people who rent privately able to buy their houses at hugely discounted rates?

I agree with that much. But it won't alter the fact of social housing being scarce and finite.

Glaucus · 20 May 2007 at 18:46

dirtydog said:
Without wishing to be rude, you are English yet you would fail an elementary English test yourself, looking at your posts. They're/there etc. An immigrant is not a native and should never get the same rights as a native, no matter what arbitrary test they can learn to pass.

grammar Nazi, seeing as I passed GCSE English, I would surmise I would pass. Also you got to remember this is a forum and therefore all though I try to correct mistakes before hitting the submit button, I'm not going to go through my post in great detail.

starscream · 20 May 2007 at 18:47

cleanbluesky said:
If they're working, surely they can afford their own rent?

Are you under the mistaken impression that foreigners get treated like natives in the middle east?

Isn't your argument that immigration and integration need to be addressed socially, rather than simply housing?

And no, I don't think foreigners get treated like natives in the ME, with the possibly exception of Iraq where they both seem to getting shot at and blown up

dirtydog · 20 May 2007 at 18:51

AcidHell2 said:
grammar Nazi, seeing as I passed GCSE English, I would surmise I would pass. Also you got to remember this is a forum and therefore all though I try to correct mistakes before hitting the submit button, I'm not going to go through my post in great detail.

So if you were, for example, going to pass a citizenship test you would make an effort? Thanks for making my point. A monkey could learn to pass a test but what does it prove. Does it prove that the immigrant's heart is British and that they will have full allegiance to Britain?

Are you saying that you would give new immigrants who weren't even born here, full rights the same as a native simply for passing a test? :eek:

Glaucus · 20 May 2007 at 18:54

dirtydog said:
So if you were, for example, going to pass a citizenship test you would make an effort? Thanks for making my point. A monkey could learn to pass a test but what does it prove. Does it prove that the immigrant's heart is British and that they will have full allegiance to Britain?

Are you saying that you would give new immigrants who weren't even born here, full rights the same as a native simply for passing a test?

No, I didn't say anything about allegiance, but just by learning it they are more likely to be able to fit in. I also said there should be a point's test and they should have to live here for x number of time with no trouble before being given full rights. I think America has got a good system. It's not perfect but far better than ours (but that's not hard)