Poll: Hodgson, should he stay or should he go.
- Thread starter Danthus
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Some good point.
Having watched all three England matches I see little to be too positive about. People were clamouring for the younger players to get a chance and to an extent they did but none of them really did anything to vindicate their selection. I have watched quite a few of the other matches and reckon I have seen every team play. England are amongst the poorest in the tournament
1. results. The teams position as poorest in the group brackets them with Australia, Iran, Honduras, Cameroon, Japan, Ghana and Korea. That is a huge endictment of how poor the current team has performed.
2. Basic technical ability. I still think this is a massive issue for the game in the the UK. Players just don't have the technique of the almost all the competition at this level. Its been said for decades but little seems to have improved. for a player like Rooney to be idolised the way he is when his first touch and short passing is so poor illustrates how how poorly England's best benchmark.
3. Tactically - I wonder if there is a danger of over thinking in this area. I get the impression that some of the players performances are still stifled by asking them to perform too many tasks. On a broader level the shape of the team didn't seem to work at all. the Gerard-Henderson axis was bereft of any real attacking quality and didn't seem to help the defense
4. Players just aren't good enough. This World Cup has really exposed the gap between genuinely world class players and the EPL stars.
Hart - not much to criticise
Baines - positionally weak with Everton but good attacking. Positionally weak with England and nothing attacking
Jagielka/Cahill - short on pace but arguably no-one better. Certainly not Jones or Smalling at this stage who havent cemented 1st team football at club level.
Johnson - see comment on Baines
Gerrard - mechanical. and has lost box to box element of his game that made him decent
Henderson - Little to differentiate him from Milner, Cleverly or Barry. where is the creative midfielder who can dictate play or pick a pass. Wilshire? not on any recent evidence. Carrick? Truth is that there isnt anyone.
Sterling, Lallana, Barkley, Welbeck - I understand that Sterling is exciting to watch but actually his impact post the Italy match was weak. you get that with young players but ultimately for me he needs to show a bit more than fast running with the ball. Definite potential but a tournament too soon.
Lallana was poor in the warm up games and probably needs to move from Southampton to develop further. Barkley did nothing for me. Bracketing him with Gascoigne is a joke. Until he is a first pick for his club then he isnt ready for England. Welbeck is just a bit short of everything although he is one of the few players who looks like he might do something unpredictable in terms of a give and go or a flick that breaches a back four. Ultimately he isnt ahead of either Rooney or RVp at United and on this showing he has done nothing to challenge that.
Rooney
I think he has become a very ordinary footballer most of the time. Occasionally he is capable of brilliance but not often enough. I still don't think anyone knows his best position. He gets a lot of stick but one thing is evident , if he is paid £300k a week then its hard to see the value.
Sturridge
He did ok but ultimately he was guilty of missing 4-5 very good chances to score. Had he taken them, England may now be lining up to face Greece. Ultimately he is a player that again is just short of being really good, City and Chelsea both had this view so sold him on, he's improved but not to the point that England need in a World Cup Finals.
As to whether Hodgson should go or stay. Well He has done little to evidence why he should stay. He's an old school coach whose experience has yeilded nothing when it should have. Its therefore hard to see how things can improve in the next two years. the problem for England is finding someone better.
Caporegime
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i think the FA should go and start from the ground up again.
the English division is a ****ing mess right up to grass roots.
Sorry but its been proven that no matter who our manager is, there is no hope for english football pure and simple.
I don't think the basic technical ability is really any excuse - sure if we had top level technical ability across the board we'd have gone further but IMO it alone isn't a stumbling block - other managers managed to get much more out of their team from players with less technical ability.
I think the way the team was managed had a knock on effect of making players look worse than they are due to so much riding on individual performance at times when a good manager would have been covering those weaknesses through tactics and teamplay i.e. Gerrard gets a lot of stick but largely he is a competent player he just wasn't utilised for his strengths and the way he was used exposed his weaknesses. Likewise Sterling as people have said is a bit of a 1 trick pony but hes still a competent player overall, he should have been used more/better to get the ball flowing positively back and forth between Gerrard/Wilshire and Sturridge.
Likewise I think Hodgson is an old school coach who has solid tactics and strategies but hasn't kept up with the meta of today's football - he is certainly someone I'd want on the team managing England but hes not someone I'd want as the manager - he was like a deer in the headlights versus Uruguay as he couldn't beat them simply by putting his best team and strongest strategy on the pitch and leave it to play out.
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Soldato
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Our players are crap. Just get the cheapest manager possible and save a few quid. Invest the money saved in the under 21's and hope England can produce some genuine world class talent in the future.
See this is the problem with English football fans, our players aren't crap neither are they world class the majority are decent footballers some slightly better Rooney for example and some slightly worse Johnson for example. Sometimes it all comes together and they are better than the sum of their parts (england 5 Germany 1), sometimes it doesn't (Costa Rica 0 England 0). Occasionally we have a slightly better generation of players and we achieve a little more (Italia 90) sometimes we are inbettween generations (This year!) and we go out early. We are a small coountry with a limited pool of tallent and we play far to many sports at a high level dilluting our talent pool even further. Our football system doesn't promote English talent it promotes and rewards greed, quick solutions and short sightedness but then everyone loves the premier league!
The big difference at this world cup is that Uruguay and Italy both had a world class player that fired on the day and we ran out of luck. The margins are tiny at international level if Sterlings first minute shot against Italy goes in it's a different game, if Roony's header against Uruguay is an inch lower or their captain gets sent off like he should it's a different game, yes I do know there are just as many what if's the other way thats the beauty of football!
Hodgson should stay he's done a decnt enough job, we qualified strongly for the tournament and played some decent football in a very tough group, we've been chopping and changing wihout success for years maybe it's time to try something different.
Soldato
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The team clearly has a lot more talent than a couple of teams that got through ie Costa Rica, Greece. The difference is tactics and that those teams played as a team. England seemed like a bunch of individuals.
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Stay - I can't see anyone better to replace him who would be willing to take the job and too be honest, even though the results were bad it was a nice change to see an England team actually try attacking rather than sitting in their own half passing the ball between themselves.
For me though this isn't just an augment about whether it's the players or the manager that are at fault. Our entire footballing culture and infrastructure is wrong and there is no easy fix. We have the top tier of our football league system seemingly opposed to a strong England team as no change will ever be made that the Premier League disagree with. The homegrown player rule is a joke when players such as Fabregas count as homegrown, it just encourages clubs to take younger players from abroad which just means English players get less or a chance at a younger age. The FA is headed by businessmen who constantly drift around top positions in major organisations (usually without much success in any) and each one comes with a "eight year plan" to make England great again, safe in the knowledge they probably won't be I the post after four years. The tabloid media is just about the most destructive and negative force which could ever be levelled against any organisation but when it comes to football the **** that is written is just unbelievable!
The list goes on and on... Bring on the Euros.
For me though this isn't just an augment about whether it's the players or the manager that are at fault. Our entire footballing culture and infrastructure is wrong and there is no easy fix. We have the top tier of our football league system seemingly opposed to a strong England team as no change will ever be made that the Premier League disagree with. The homegrown player rule is a joke when players such as Fabregas count as homegrown, it just encourages clubs to take younger players from abroad which just means English players get less or a chance at a younger age. The FA is headed by businessmen who constantly drift around top positions in major organisations (usually without much success in any) and each one comes with a "eight year plan" to make England great again, safe in the knowledge they probably won't be I the post after four years. The tabloid media is just about the most destructive and negative force which could ever be levelled against any organisation but when it comes to football the **** that is written is just unbelievable!
The list goes on and on... Bring on the Euros.
They should adopt a zero-tolerance policy toward pathetic little 'injuries' causing players to miss friendlies etc - miss a game for that and you're out of selection for the following tournament. Might end up with a squad of Championship players but as the WC has shown supporters are far more forgiving of limited players who want to play vs. skillful players who'd rather be on their holidays 
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Purely because we've been through so many managers I think he should stay and be given another shot at Euro/Worldcup so the team has some consistency
Stay.
England will never succeed if we keep turfing out managers after every lost game. Like everything in life the more you do something the better you get at it. How does it help if every second you are getting told to do something different.
England will never succeed if we keep turfing out managers after every lost game. Like everything in life the more you do something the better you get at it. How does it help if every second you are getting told to do something different.
Go for my money!
Not a bad selection on the face of it but he still doesn't have the guts to drop the big names leading us to the same old results!
The substitutions and lack of tactics change in the 2 lost games were woeful - like for like changes rarely change a game Roy!
Not a bad selection on the face of it but he still doesn't have the guts to drop the big names leading us to the same old results!
The substitutions and lack of tactics change in the 2 lost games were woeful - like for like changes rarely change a game Roy!
Flipside though I can't really see England succeeding with him either and there is losing a game and losing a game, i.e. USA v Belgium - no one in their right mind would call for Klinsmann's head after a game like that whereas England v Uruguay was an utter management failure before even anything else.
I like his strategies and tactical abilities - on paper they are good - but hes just too stuck in his ways to be able to respond to a changing situation or play the game one step ahead of the other manager.
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i said stay as I don't think there is anyone currently available that could do a better job.
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Yeah that is a problem - we've got people with the appetite and head for the newer meta but don't have the experience and people with the experience but don't seem to have their heads around some of the progress made in the game i.e. purely for illustration - these days its not enough just putting your best striker on the pitch and hope for the best but put your striker on the pitch that has the best chance of beating the style of goal keeping of the goal keeper the team your about to play is likely to field.
Hodgson seems to very much belong in the camp of putting your best players, most familiar and strong strategy down and then letting it play out somewhat hoping for the best and that doesn't cut it any more.
(Obviously this is grossly overly simplifying it but should convey the theme).
Hodgson seems to very much belong in the camp of putting your best players, most familiar and strong strategy down and then letting it play out somewhat hoping for the best and that doesn't cut it any more.
(Obviously this is grossly overly simplifying it but should convey the theme).
What bugs me is like most managers he has certain players that "he trusts to do a job" welbeck being the one at the moment, I can't fault him for his commitment or work rate he always gives his all chasing down and keeping the ball but he takes the easy option and doesn't have that quality going forward that top teams need, playing him instead of Lallana was his biggest mistake this tournament the team looked unbalanced and the attacking flow was stopped whenever welbeck got the ball out wide because he would be facing towards his own goal acting like a target man on the touchline (like Heskey when he was used in the left) on the plus side next season we should have plenty of wingers competing for positions, Walcott, sterling, ox, Townsend, Lallana etc. Hodgson just needs to make the choice between Rooney or sturridge up front as the two together doesn't work