Homophobic attack on two women on London bus.

[McGraw]

London isn't a city, it's an amalgamation of small towns all joined together. Some parts are perfectly safe, others are feral, especially if you happen to be a youngster and in the wrong area. I've never had any issues there apart from one occasion when ironically a coked up banker type thought he would create because by missus was a model.

I grew up in a market town. You had to be hard if you wanted to go out drinking then. Mind you back then usually the worst that would happen is you get ten shades of **** beaten out of you if let the other guy get the better of you. Stabbings and robberies were virtually unheard of. Now both are common.

Manchester is the same but it’s still a city.

 

[Scam]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-48572800

BBC jumping on the homophobic attack stories now even with ZERO evidence to say it was homophobic in nature, so proud to fund this non biased stellar reporting.

I think you seriously need to think about why it matters so much to you that it was NOT a homophobic attack. The victims said so, they were there you know

 

[Dis86]

I think you seriously need to think about why it matters so much to you that it was NOT a homophobic attack. The victims said so, they were there you know

Well of course they're gonna say it was!

 

[Scam]

Well of course they're gonna say it was!

Why?

 

[Dis86]

Why?

To ensure maximum punishment for the offenders.

 

[Scam]

To ensure maximum punishment for the offenders.

Nonsense. Any normal person when confronted with a shocking incident such as assault, theft, whatever, when dealing with the police is more than likely to give an honest account of what happened. I'll be honest, disbelieving the victim's account of events here smacks a little of right-leaning tin foil hat brigade. Surely what you're suggesting constitutes perverting the course if justice?

The most realistic reason they were arrested for assault and theft was because that could be clearly evidenced from CCTV. Therefore the police will hit them with what is most likely to stick. If the police have no evidence a verbal standoff was homophobic in nature (due to only having the victims statements that it was) then I'm guessing they just won't pursue that. Doesn't mean it didn't happen though, and the girls have got every right to go to the papers to make their point.

 

[robgmun]

This. I moved to London 25 years ago and my first flat was off Portobello Road. Walking around that area late at night always felt dodgy. Muggings were a common occurrence. Then moved to Walthamstow and I was never happy when my girlfriend at the time finished work late and had to walk back from Blackhorse Road tube.

Jesus, Walthamstow has always been a horrible dump. I actively refused to go there in the 90's when i was a teenager. Literary anywhere else in east London would have been better

 

[Dis86]

Nonsense. Any normal person when confronted with a shocking incident such as assault, theft, whatever, when dealing with the police is more than likely to give an honest account of what happened.

That's a bold claim. I assume you have facts to back it up?

And you're working on multiple assumptions there.

 

[wesimmo]

To ensure maximum punishment for the offenders.

And?

They're scum bags, I know if I could have made sure the people who robbed my house got as long a sentence as possible I'd have taken any opportunity, if you're going to be a scum bag then screw you.

That aside, I would bet good money it was a homophobic attack, as was the bus attack.

Imagine if they had been a black, straight couple and the whole incident started with racist remarks, would you say the ensuing assault was a racist attack?

 

[TJM]

Laffo at this thread. It's gone from a police conspiracy to conceal the ethnic backgrounds of the suspects to deciding that a hate crime wasn't actually committed. What's the next talking point?

If the police have no evidence a verbal standoff was homophobic in nature (due to only having the victims statements that it was) then I'm guessing they just won't pursue that.

The courts will generally accept a person's account of what was said and done if it is credible, consistent and supported (or not contradicted) by the other evidence (CCTV, injuries, etc.). People are routinely convicted in what might be called a 'He said, she said' scenario because one person's account is believable and other's obviously isn't. If the CCTV supports what these women have said about the prolonged build-up to the assault, the court would have little reason not to accept the rest of the allegation.

The media seem to think that just because the victims were homosexual then that automatically makes it a 'homophobic' attack, my point is you have to PROVE that the MOTIVE for the attack was because the women were homosexual, it's not enough for them to just to just be homosexual and perceive the attack as an attack on their homosexuality due to a few lewd comments.

But it is enough to prove that the offenders demonstrated hostility on the basis of their sexual orientation while committing the offence.

If I attack someone to steal their watch and scream racist abuse at them while doing it, "I said it but I was really after the watch" is no defence to a racially aggravated offence.

 

[Caracus2k]

If I attack someone to steal their watch and scream racist abuse at them while doing it, "I said it but I was really after the watch" is no defence to a racially aggravated offence.

I haven't, to date, seen any reporting of anything that would appear to constitute homophobic abuse (screamed or otherwise) in this incident.

The press reporting I have seen indicates the suspects wanted the ladies to kiss and when they refused it escalated to violence.

Melania Geymonat, 28, said the attack on her and partner Chris happened on the top deck of a London night bus as they were travelling to Camden Town.

A group of young men began harassing them when they discovered the women were a couple, asking them to kiss while making sexual gestures.

Ms Geymonat said: "They surrounded us and started saying really aggressive stuff, things about sexual positions, lesbians and claiming we could kiss so they could watch us.

"To ease the situation I tried to make some jokes, like Chris, wasn't understanding because she didn't speak English.

"She even acted as if she was sick... but they started throwing coins. The next thing I know Chris is in the middle of the bus and they are punching her.

"So I immediately went there by impulse and tried to pull her out of there and they started punching me. I was really bleeding."

That doesn't mean the suspects didn't say/ scream something homophobic or at least make pejorative comments about the ladies sexuality.....

Only that the reporting doesn't appear to have covered it if it happened and this includes at least one statement made to the press by one of the victims.

I have been on a public bus and witnessed thugs picking on heterosexual couples or apparently
heterosexual women (including making lewd remarks and suggestions to them) but would not call this heterophobic even if the suspects were gay unless they displayed hostility or made pejorative comments about the others sexuality.

Asking two lesbians to kiss for your personal amusement and or titiliation isn't homophobic any more that asking a heterosexual woman or couple to similarly 'put on a show' they didn't want to participate in would be.

It might be rather disrespectful and one might even say misogynistic (by treating women as objects for sexual titiliation against their wishes) but the homophobic part isn't quite so clear.

 

[VincentHanna]

Having considered this incident its actually a bit bizzare that it's been labeled variously a 'homophobic' and/or a 'misogynistic' incident


As it doesn't appear to have been based on a fear/disgust (be it irrational or rational) of homosexual women (as a description as it being homophobic would suggest) or be based on hatred, contempt or prejudice against women (as misogyny would suggest).

I'm glad to see that you do (very occasionally) slightly change your mind. We can agree that this seems like everyday misogyny rather than homophobia.

It might be rather disrespectful and one might even say misogynistic (by treating women as objects for sexual titiliation against their wishes) but the homophobic part isn't quite so clear.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

I think you seriously need to think about why it matters so much to you that it was NOT a homophobic attack. The victims said so, they were there you know

It matters because it pushes an agenda for shock value that has no basis in reality. You could replace homophobic with Nazi/Racist/whatever and it would all equally be untrue and done to publicise what is basically some morons throwing a stone from a car.

I guess as long as the victims say its homophobic (with no evidence to say so, no words were spoken from the attackers if you actually bothered to read the article), next time someone steps on my shoe on the underground I'll accuse them of being a racist nazi, by your metric the only proof I need is to be a victim and be there at the time.

 

[Roar87]

Sounds like sexual harassment and assault to me, could've easily happened to straight women and almost certainly has in the past.

 

[Screeeech]

From what I've read in the reports, I think it probably is a legitimate homophobic attack.

Essentially, it seems that they were singled out, deliberately on purpose - not because they were women, or for any other reason, but for the sole reason that they were gay.

From reading the reports - that was the motive behind the attack, they wanted to make fun of a gay couple, because they were gay, according to the reports it started with verbal homophobic abuse which ultimately ended up with a physical assault.

I'm struggling to see how it was anything other than homophobic, it seems they were singled and made fun of, deliberately because they were homosexual, the defendants didn't simply pick randomly.

 

[Scam]

That's a bold claim. I assume you have facts to back it up?

General human nature? Otherwise every single court case would be followed up by charges of perverting the course of justice...

Laffo at this thread. It's gone from a police conspiracy to conceal the ethnic backgrounds of the suspects to deciding that a hate crime wasn't actually committed. What's the next talking point?

I find it mind boggling. Didn't actually realise people in GD are so scared of a left wing agenda that they'd actively side with thugs that beat up two women..

That doesn't mean the suspects didn't say/ scream something homophobic or at least make pejorative comments about the ladies sexuality.....

Exactly. If they were shouting at the women to "do stuff" you'd be extremely naive to think it was done without offensive remarks made about their sexuality...

Asking two lesbians to kiss for your personal amusement and or titiliation isn't homophobic any more that asking a heterosexual woman or couple to similarly 'put on a show' they didn't want to participate in would be.

See above.

It matters because it pushes an agenda for shock value that has no basis in reality. You could replace homophobic with Nazi/Racist/whatever and it would all equally be untrue and done to publicise what is basically some morons throwing a stone from a car.

Wow. Just wow. "No basis in reality" even though in the same week this happened: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-lgbt-play-performances-after-actors-attacked

Although I suspect you're being facetious about that too. All in all I have no idea why an "agenda" could be a bad thing anyway. What is it exactly you're worried about? Gay men kissing in front of you? lol...

 

[Scam]

Sounds like sexual harassment and assault to me, could've easily happened to straight women and almost certainly has in the past.

Yes. Except as Screech said they were clearly singled out because they were gay, and that in itself constitutes it being homophobic attack. End of story.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

You have to wonder what is or was going through the minds of these vicious teenaged attackers; I thought this sort of behaviour was a thing of the past.

Theresa May, Jeremy Corbyn, Sadiq Khan, Penny Mordaunt and Tulip Siddiq have all expressed disgust at this unprovoked attack, I wonder when other MPs will find the time to speak out for tolerance?

do you even news bro?

You do realise they have been stabbing each other for years now. so they got off lucky.

Moped crimes. Peoples phones and laptops being ripped out of their hands.

I don't see why this specific story got so much traction with the media. I bet one fo their parents has contacts high up or is indeed high up themselves. This sort of thing happens every couple of hours it just never gets any media attention.

 

[XeNoN89]

From what I've read in the reports, I think it probably is a legitimate homophobic attack.

Essentially, it seems that they were singled out, deliberately on purpose - not because they were women, or for any other reason, but for the sole reason that they were gay.

From reading the reports - that was the motive behind the attack, they wanted to make fun of a gay couple, because they were gay, according to the reports it started with verbal homophobic abuse which ultimately ended up with a physical assault.

I'm struggling to see how it was anything other than homophobic, it seems they were singled and made fun of, deliberately because they were homosexual, the defendants didn't simply pick randomly.

It seems much more likely that they were just scumbags who were out to cause trouble and a lesbian couple was just an easy target for them

 

[Dis86]

@Scam I'd love to live in the world you do where people never make things up out of vengeance or spite and never exaggerate the details of something. Especially not when they've gone running to the media.

I wonder how Shannon Matthews family are doing these days...