Soldato
Nissan are also in close ties with Renault, So I'd guess unlikely to produce a competing engine in F1.
Honda maybe returning to F1
- Thread starter ShakenNstirred
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Nissan are also in close ties with Renault, So I'd guess unlikely to produce a competing engine in F1.
End of this year, and McLaren have already confirmed a new sponsorship deal will be announced at the end of the year, which is expected to replace Vodafone as title sponsor.
Yeah, they would just play with the branding of the Renault engine instead.
Soldato
Like you said if they stayed with the I4 engine plans I think we would have seen a few more having a look.
Soldato
And if they would stop locking engines down to one single format then they might entice even more in. When you can't use it as a testbed for the future, motorsport at this level just becomes a really easy way of getting a small fortune out of a large one....
And to pre-empt the usual responses:
- But that would make it too expensive!
- But everyone would use the same format anyway, because they'd just look at the one that won!
- But then we'll end up with 300mph cars and drivers dying every week, why do you want that, WHY?!?!?
Lol, back again JRS.
It would make it to expensive. You can't deny that. All the manufacturers jumped ship when there was freeze on engine development because they couldn't afford to compete. What makes you think they would be able to fund a development race?
But anyway, the 2014 spec engines aren't frozen. They are limited by capacity, block angle and dimensions, and fuel flow, but not really much else. The key areas they are trying to push, the energy recovery, is pretty loose in terms of its regulations. Power in and out is limited, but how you go about it is up to you.
And they can use it as a test bed. Parts that Mercedes developed for the aborted I4 plans have made it into their road cars already.
The V6 is a stupid idea though, I still stand by that.
It would make it to expensive. You can't deny that. All the manufacturers jumped ship when there was freeze on engine development because they couldn't afford to compete. What makes you think they would be able to fund a development race?
But anyway, the 2014 spec engines aren't frozen. They are limited by capacity, block angle and dimensions, and fuel flow, but not really much else. The key areas they are trying to push, the energy recovery, is pretty loose in terms of its regulations. Power in and out is limited, but how you go about it is up to you.
And they can use it as a test bed. Parts that Mercedes developed for the aborted I4 plans have made it into their road cars already.
The V6 is a stupid idea though, I still stand by that.
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Soldato
Mercedes produce an I4 already so it could have been worth it for them, Ferrari I'd of called their bluff, but never mind.
Unfortunately the FIA were to scared too.
Soldato
They fund an aero development race?
Pack in the focus on aero and put the focus on engines instead. Pick an amount of downforce at a speed that is achievable in a wind tunnel and limit the cars to that. Throw in some drag coefficient limits too for good measure.
You could also limit the fuel tank capacity and mandate that it is completely full at the start of the race which would encourage people to be efficient as well as chasing power.
In fact, wouldn't that be a completely awesome thing? Unchecked engine development but an absolute cap on fuel capacity? Immediately relevant to road cars where emissions/efficiency is everything too, coupled with manufacturers not being able to go berserk else they'd never finish a race.
You'd have a choice of 1,000,000bhp for one lap and then having to pootle around conserving fuel or a more modest pace that could be sustained for an entire race.
Soldato
Because they would be getting something out of it, as I've tried to explain to you before. When you have everything locked down, you have to spend vast amounts of money to get....well, nothing. You might get a trophy out of it, provided the team you're with doesn't produce a car with the aerodynamic properties of a Kamikaze plane post-mission, but that's about it.
Even Porsche have said that the reason they don't get involved in F1 is that they can't develop anything relevant to their products with it. That's Porsche, a company with competition in their DNA, and they don't see the point getting involved with the top level series in motorsport. That ought to be enough of a clue that something is a bit wrong with the direction Grand Prix racing has taken. Or maybe it isn't, maybe it'll take the whole thing crashing down to get people to admit that those guys in Zuffenhausen have a point....
And that's great, honestly. It's certainly more than a step in the right direction, it's a bloody great leap.
Hurray for Mercedes starting early on the new regs. Meanwhile, the rest of the world sat waiting for the plans to actually become finally final
Soldato
McLaren best ditch this car and start on the 2014 one and find a fast driver.
Hurray for Mercedes starting early on the new regs. Meanwhile, the rest of the world sat waiting for the plans to actually become finally final
Would have been one hell of a head start had the I4 been finalised though.
And I expect both Ferrari and Renault opened up R&D into the I4 format the moment it was first suggested too.
Soldato
Been saying the same thing for years. The motor industry is totally dominated by a push for greener more efficient cars. A fuel limit with free development on how you use it, energy recovery etc would push ahead development in that area and it would be easy to progressively reduce the amount of fuel allowed as the drivetrains get more efficient.
You'd get some great paranoia too with teams coming up with ingenious ways to sneak other energy sources onto the car.
Fuel limits is a good idea (don't MotoGP use it?). But maybe not until the new engines have been used for a season first?
But... would we then just see the "save the tyres" radio messages replaced with "save the fuel" messages?
But... would we then just see the "save the tyres" radio messages replaced with "save the fuel" messages?
Soldato
I can see the fia putting fuel limits in 2014 just like they did before. F1 is going around in circles and not for the better.
Soldato
I can imagine a few teams wanting a slice of the Honda action. Especially if Honda do a good price.
Force India Honda? Sounds alright that, doesn't it? Plus Hero Honda bikes are made in India.
Would McLaren have left Mercedes for Honda if Honda weren't going to consider McLaren a customer team? Honda would get the benefit of a top team using and testing their engines and hopefully receive top technical feedback.
Ouch. Is the $14-$20m just for the Honda deal or are all the new engine deals going to cost that kind of money?
I will see if I can find the article, as it rumoured the cost of all the suppliers, and it ranged from $14m for the cheapest up to $21m for the most expensive, with Honda being relatively cheap.
But its still significantly lower than the figures being thrown around by the anti V6 crew (Ferrari and Bernie, mainly).
But its still significantly lower than the figures being thrown around by the anti V6 crew (Ferrari and Bernie, mainly).
