Honda to quit F1 after 2021

Steedie · 2 Oct 2020 at 09:06

Wow, was not expecting that!?

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...t-the-end-of-2021.3nsZ7zzaokaze5Sjc4V6s0.html

Where do Red Bull go from here? Back to Renault?

vanpeebles · 2 Oct 2020 at 09:15

Honda had their fingers burnt lol.

Armageus · 2 Oct 2020 at 09:19

Seems like an odd time to pull out though. Just as their engines are relatively competitive, and without any radical changes to come in 2022.

FireTwo · 2 Oct 2020 at 09:20

Need to pump that money back into HRC MotoGP program

JRS · 2 Oct 2020 at 09:27

Steedie said:
Wow, was not expecting that!?

Really? I mean, they've always cut-and-ran before when not winning everything. I suspect they get almost no real R&D benefit from this engine formula (because what idiot would build a small capacity 90° V6 with heat recovery for a road car...). And as for the advertising/PR benefit - why keep sinking cash into the F1 circus just to get beat by Mercedes?

Leaves RB in a spot of bother, since the same issues regarding engine suppliers exist from the last time they were looking for one. But I can barely contain my utter indifference in that regard

Kenai · 2 Oct 2020 at 09:32

It'd be good if engine supply worked in a way we could see a Brawn repeat, It would be peak Honda for it to turn out their 2022 spec engine is a world beater, has the rest of the grid beat by 50bhp and 10% efficiency but they've pulled out and <insert engine supplier here> buy the tech, sell it to a team and they smash the Championship

Slam62 · 2 Oct 2020 at 09:38

F1 has ridiculously complex power plants, if Merc weren't there it would be nothing, even with ferrari.

Surprising, though in ways but logical in others. I wonder if they might try FE

Stumble Bum · 2 Oct 2020 at 09:38

Coming soon to 'Drive to Survive'.... In a shock U-turn, Christian Horner begs Cyril to supply them Renault engines again

Dup · 2 Oct 2020 at 09:39

Well, didn't expect this at all. I guess with only two teams using their units the costs aren't worth it. It's a shame because they achieved more than they expected in my opinion, but the world and COVID has everyone in a pinch and F1 is always going to be frivolous business.

I guess RB will be back to Renault due to costs, which they'll love I'm sure!

MM-Seat · 2 Oct 2020 at 10:00

Is there any possibility Red Bull pulls out?

What a difficult job Horner has now to either get the TAG engines (ha

) back in and play ball with Renault after a messy divorce or to get another manufacturer on board which is just not going to happen.

I think we are seeing the impact keeping the engines the same for 15 years will have on Formula 1.

Hawk Tuah · 2 Oct 2020 at 10:03

Could they use a Mercedes engine?

Armageus · 2 Oct 2020 at 10:06

Bug One said:
Could they use a Mercedes engine?

Potentially yes, but they don't have to offer one to Red Bull.

Renault on the other hand are required to offer one as they are supplying the least number of teams at present

* That's how I understand it *

Finners · 2 Oct 2020 at 10:08

That really does leave red bull in a horrible position.

Unless Merc pull out and become just an engine supplier but I assume they have signed up till 2025 like red bull.

I'll have to look as I know there are huge aero changes happening for 2022 but not read about engines. From the article it seems Renault can be forced to supply them but that will be a terrible working relationship

Ryan-3 · 2 Oct 2020 at 10:15

Wasn't expecting that. Surely neither party will be wanting a Renault-Red Bull reunion? Even if it's in the rules.

pastymuncher · 2 Oct 2020 at 10:17

Well that sucks, just as they come good they quit. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me especially as the rule changes mostly impact aero in 2022. Red Bull back to Renault, now that's going to be a healthy relationship!! Perhaps if we didn't have these ridiculously complex and expensive power units there would be more engine manufacturers in F1.

deuse · 2 Oct 2020 at 10:24

Could Red Bull go to Cosworth?

this_is_gav · 2 Oct 2020 at 10:32

Ryan-3 said:
Surely neither party will be wanting a Renault-Red Bull reunion? Even if it's in the rules.

It's probably better for Renault as a company to win races with Red Bull if Renault themselves aren't.

Still, I bet Cyril is sitting by the phone right now with a rather smug look on his face.

this_is_gav · 2 Oct 2020 at 10:40

While the reasoning is understandable, from a sporting point of view it's a shame, as while they're not quite there yet, it wouldn't have been too big of a shock to see Red Bull as the team to beat in 2022.

deuse said:
Could Red Bull go to Cosworth?

No chance of a new engine supplier coming in time. It takes multiple years to develop one of these power units to be powerful and reliable.

Even Honda had two years of development and McLaren persuaded them to come in a year early, having initially intended to enter for 2016 rather than 2015. We know how that one ended.

Armageus · 2 Oct 2020 at 10:41

Finners said:
I'll have to look as I know there are huge aero changes happening for 2022 but not read about engines.

pastymuncher said:
Doesn't make a lot of sense to me especially as the rule changes mostly impact aero in 2022.

Indeed there was talk the 2022 engine would drop one part of the ERS to make it cheaper and reduce complexity, but they've delayed any changes now to 2026, as the Aero change impact will be quite significant

deuse said:
Could Red Bull go to Cosworth?

They possibly would have if the 2022 engine simplificatione above had happened, but can't see anyone joining only for 2022-2025, to then have to endure a huge engine rule change in 2026.
(which makes it all the more odd that Honda choose now to leave, when all "difficult" work has been done - everything now is evolutionary rather than revolutionary)