Honda to quit F1 after 2021

This is big news

If I was merc I'd pull out and let everyone have my amazing engines .
Would it be the most profitable outcome?
But then there would be no point in engine dev

Happy for Honda really. Must be a big resource sink in pandemic times. And they want to go green too.

So, will red bull just leave? Or will they end up with Renault engines again (lol)

Interesting times. Does feel like the manufacturers are slowly leaving and private enterprise is entering f1
 
Only other far fetched option would be to buy the Honda assets etc and continue development of the engine themselves. 18 months to set that in motion however would seem tight (but presumably not out of the question if they might have previously explored the option)
 
Not been a keen F1 fan since the Honda and McLaren split but this is big news. For me it is just another symptom of Mercedes political dominance. They have kept the sport expensive with these over complex engines, which frankly has limited the kind of swings in dominance we saw pre-complex engines.
 
I found Honda's return in the V8 era, leaving and then rejoining in the hyrbrid era all odd timing so why should their leaving again not be an unusual time.

413x said:
This is big news

If I was merc I'd pull out and let everyone have my amazing engines .
Would it be the most profitable outcome?
But then there would be no point in engine dev

Happy for Honda really. Must be a big resource sink in pandemic times. And they want to go green too.

So, will red bull just leave? Or will they end up with Renault engines again (lol)

Interesting times. Does feel like the manufacturers are slowly leaving and private enterprise is entering f1
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Probably not, it only cost Mercedes £30mil or so last year as they got so much money back in prize money and sponsorship. That's without taking in to account the marketing value it provides to the road car company. With the incoming cost caps, it's expected Merc will actually make a profit from F1 (assuming they maintain similar levels of performance). Plus there's a cap on the price of engines so there probably isn't too much profit in them whereas for Merc the profit comes from that engine powering their own team.
 
Bad news for competition in F1. However, I can't help but feel perhaps just an early indication of what's to come if there isn't more of a forward-thinking shake-up to the regulations. Involvement in F1 has often had a benefit to 'real world' and it seems like those things are now further apart, even in the super/hypercar realm. Yes, the hybrid era was a move in that direction, but we're now into a BEV era. If F1 is at the pinnacle of powertrain development, where does it go in the era of BEV?

I thought it was a long shot that Formula E would become more popular than F1, but this is a further step in that direction. Formula E is attracting serious talent, not just in drivers but also manufacturers too, with it being a somewhat relevant R&D effort for the world of electrification. I would also say I've enjoyed Formula E races (from a pure competitive/motorsport PoV) more than F1 in the last 2 years. Food for thought.
 
Wow, didn't see that one coming after such a grind to get to where they are. Honda are finished in F1 permanently, they won't be trusted for a long time. We better hope Mercedes doesn't pull out too. That's Red Bull completely screwed (short term too as Honda will stop pumping money into the engine) - long term they've burned their bridges with Renault and Mercedes.

Stumble Bum said:
Coming soon to 'Drive to Survive'.... In a shock U-turn, Christian Horner begs Cyril to supply them Renault engines again :p
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I'd love to be in that room.
 
alex24 said:
Bad news for competition in F1. However, I can't help but feel perhaps just an early indication of what's to come if there isn't more of a forward-thinking shake-up to the regulations. Involvement in F1 has often had a benefit to 'real world' and it seems like those things are now further apart, even in the super/hypercar realm. Yes, the hybrid era was a move in that direction, but we're now into a BEV era. If F1 is at the pinnacle of powertrain development, where does it go in the era of BEV?

I thought it was a long shot that Formula E would become more popular than F1, but this is a further step in that direction. Formula E is attracting serious talent, not just in drivers but also manufacturers too, with it being a somewhat relevant R&D effort for the world of electrification. I would also say I've enjoyed Formula E races (from a pure competitive/motorsport PoV) more than F1 in the last 2 years. Food for thought.
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Would be great of formula E gets to the point of f1 in terms of TV coverage etc

Its obviously the future too.

No way f1 will be anything other than electric in probably 10 years max
By f1 I mean the most prestigious motorsprt series
 
Armageus said:
Only other far fetched option would be to buy the Honda assets etc and continue development of the engine themselves. 18 months to set that in motion however would seem tight (but presumably not out of the question if they might have previously explored the option)
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My first thoughts were RB buying Honda's PU assets and carrying on with development themselves; other than leaving the sport, it seems the most logical solution albeit a bit tight timewise.

I'd be very surprised if both Ferrari and Mercedes offer up their engines, it's too late for another engine supplier to join the ranks and whilst Renault would have to offer up theirs, I can't imagine either side would want that given the past.
 
visibleman said:
My first thoughts were RB buying Honda's PU assets and carrying on with development themselves; other than leaving the sport, it seems the most logical solution albeit a bit tight timewise.

I'd be very surprised if both Ferrari and Mercedes offer up their engines, it's too late for another engine supplier to join the ranks and whilst Renault would have to offer up theirs, I can't imagine either side would want that given the past.
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Given how close red bull are to Mercedes there’s no way they’ll be getting a Mercedes engine. I can’t imagine RB being able to fund and sustain a competitive engine program either.
 
Maybe they are doing it purely for financial reasons? After all how many years has F1 got left, and how much cash do they actually make if they aren't in winning cars? It's just peeing money down the drain for little to no gain.
 
Agreed. Renault always seem to be on the verge of leaving, although their car seems to be coming good now and presumably they've offered some level of guarantee to Alonso that they'll stick around for a couple of years longer.

I used to think that the 1998 regulation changes were the worst decisions F1 has ever made, but I think the switch to hybrid engines now trumps that.
 
this_is_gav said:
Still, I bet Cyril is sitting by the phone right now with a rather smug look on his face.
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Or he's recorded a new voicemail message along the lines of, "Hi Christian. I'm sorry I can't take your call right now. Your call is important to me and I will get back to you as soon as I can". :D

If Red Bull's only option is to get Renault engines, those engines are going to be the most expensive engines ever!
 
MarcLister said:
Or he's recorded a new voicemail message along the lines of, "Hi Christian. I'm sorry I can't take your call right now. Your call is important to me and I will get back to you as soon as I can". :D

If Red Bull's only option is to get Renault engines, those engines are going to be the most expensive engines ever!
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Apparently Renault will have to supply them if Mercedes/Ferrari won't. They'll be the most expensive, useless engines Renault have ever produced. I bet Max is quickly evaluating his options.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
I can’t imagine RB being able to fund and sustain a competitive engine program either.
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Surely Red Bull (owners) could inject the funding for the program? As they certainly aren't short of cash.
And they would automatically (arguably) gain AlphaTauri as a purchaser, so already one up on Renault and additional funds.

Seems the most obvious choice and would give Red Bull a lot more freedom than running back to Renault.

MarcLister said:
...those engines are going to be the most expensive engines ever!
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Is there not limits to how much a PU supplier can charge?

413x said:
No way f1 will be anything other than electric in probably 10 years max
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I'll take that bet :D

If you said in 20/30 years that FE (essentially) becoming F1 then perhaps, but not in 10. I suspect they'll slowly increase the hybrid-ness of the PU over the next 10 years before dumping the ICE part completely.
 
visibleman said:
Surely Red Bull (owners) could inject the funding for the program? As they certainly aren't short of cash.
And they would automatically (arguably) gain AlphaTauri as a purchaser, so already one up on Renault and additional funds.

Seems the most obvious choice and would give Red Bull a lot more freedom than running back to Renault.



Is there not limits to how much a PU supplier can charge?



I'll take that bet :D

If you said in 20/30 years that FE (essentially) becoming F1 then perhaps, but not in 10. I suspect they'll slowly increase the hybrid-ness of the PU over the next 10 years before dumping the ICE part completely.
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Its a risky bet for sure. 20 years surely. 10 is a push!

I can't see rbr wanting to buy the rights to build their own engine. Surely that's just crazy. The costs involved are surely too much for them.
I think they'd be more likely to leave than take that on

How much can Renault sell thier engines for? Is there a cap? I guess there has to be

Give them a ferrari lemon and max can come to Renault?
 
Formula E has a licence for purely electrically powered vehicles for several decades. Sure it’s nothing that money can’t fix but it’s money the FIA would rather not spend.
 
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