Don
I imagine it's not a financial issue, but more whether Honda would even want to sell all the rights, designs etc to an outsider
Honda to quit F1 after 2021
- Thread starter Steedie
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I imagine it's not a financial issue, but more whether Honda would even want to sell all the rights, designs etc to an outsider
Soldato
Oh yes. If Red Bull get Renault engines those ones will go bang more often than the Alpine ones. Well assuming the main team engines' aren't going bang themselves anyway.
I think there is but I'm sure Renault will find a way. Perhaps demand title sponsor status? Renault Red Bull Renault or Alpine Red Bull Renault? Put in a contractual clause that Christian has to drive a Renault company car from now on?
Cyril: Well it was the same spec as the others when it left the factory Christian.
Christian: Yeah but did your engineers attached to our team fiddle with the engine before we put it in the car?
Cyril: Sacre bleu! The very thought Christian.
Man of Honour
I actually wonder if Honda pulling out might have contractual implications for Verstappen meaning that he could walk away.
He's probably on the phone to Toto
Soldato
If Max does call Toto do you think he'll be told to hold the line?
Oof.
Soldato
Sure although i guess it depends on the usefulness of the F1 PU's R&D/tech and if it's transferable and usable in other sports - Indy/Super GT/Super Formula at a push perhaps.
But money talks and i'm sure any 'secret sauce' could be licensed if need be.
Obviously there's a lot of if's (and but's) there but to my simple mind, it still seems the most obvious and sensible solution if it can be achieved.
Question is, when can we expect an announcement from Red Bull about their future/future supplier? Before the season is out? Next season? Have they known for a while and already have something in motion?
Soldato
Plus the fact that the facility used (or was used when they started anyway) has other Honda motorsport divisions.
I wonder if Mugen-Honda are still a thing. Gary Anderson said on a recent podcast for The Race that the Mugen-Honda Jordan had between 1998 and 2000 was to all intents and purposes a full (though cheaper) Honda engine programme in all but name. Perhaps Red Bull could fund a Mugen-style similar programme. It's much more likely than Red Bull themselves taking over the PU design, personnel and manufacturing facilities, which I can't see the Honda ever agreeing to.
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Don
Ilmor or Cosworth potentially
Soldato
There's some talk of that across the media today too. Apparently Max has some clauses about 'Works Partner' or similar wording which means when Honda leave and RB aren't first choice partners of an Engine he may be free to leave and annul his contract. That would be two years early AFAIK, He's signed to the end of 2023 I think.
Man of Honour
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If Max does call Toto do you think he'll be told to hold the line?
I’d be signing him up. After next year I can’t see Hamilton hanging on for much longer, maybe the year of the new regs and he’ll potentially have 8 championships by then anyway. Mercedes will need someone quick and Max is not only quick, but has grown substantially. Of course you also wonder what Hamilton has in his contract to prevent such moves. Either way, this news has spiced things up.
Mercedes seem like a clear winner here too in terms of their closest rivals being nerfed. As fans we may well lose out though.
Soldato
Honda aren't going to give their IP to a potential competitor.
I said "Mugen-style" as Mugen-Honda have been affiliated with Honda for decades, continuing to oversee their F1 engines the last time they quit as an engine supplier.
Soldato
Soldato
It was outdated in a year and doesn't relate to any other activities, whereas PU designs and technology might.
Soldato
That was Honda selling the team to Ross Brawn with Mercedes supplying the engine. Red Bull aren't going to be buying the team from Honda in this situation.
I wonder what the cost to the team in terms of competitiveness and marketing if they lost Max would be compared to the cost of buying the Honda PU division.
Whether Honda would sell PU information to the likes of Cosworth/Ilmor is surely entirely dependent on how much of the tech in there they expect to leverage elsewhere in their businesses or whether it's now 99% only useful for building an F1 engine.
3. Are Red Bull going to stay in F1?
Yes. Red Bull signed on the dotted line to stick around in Formula 1 until at least the end of 2025 with both their works team and AlphaTauri, so there is no suggestion they will be departing with Honda.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...s-shock-2021-exit.7BXshJcP7KThDkmWraUrua.html
Yes. Red Bull signed on the dotted line to stick around in Formula 1 until at least the end of 2025 with both their works team and AlphaTauri, so there is no suggestion they will be departing with Honda.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...s-shock-2021-exit.7BXshJcP7KThDkmWraUrua.html
Commissario
When I saw the thread title I wondered if Cosworth might come back to F1 as I'd very much like to see what they can do now.
Man of Honour
Possible this puts paid to any chance of Tsunoda in the Torro Rosso (sorry Alphatauri) next season now...