Honda to quit F1 after 2021

Toto blocking a Merc engine deal for RBR.

If true (and it's Planet F1, the Sun of motorsport journalism, so take with all the salt) then I do hope the same folks on here who whined about Ferrari not supplying engines to RBR in the past have a gripe at Mercedes now. Because I sure wouldn't want any of you to sound hypocritical.

*chortle*
 
JRS said:
Toto blocking a Merc engine deal for RBR.

If true (and it's Planet F1, the Sun of motorsport journalism, so take with all the salt) then I do hope the same folks on here who whined about Ferrari not supplying engines to RBR in the past have a gripe at Mercedes now. Because I sure wouldn't want any of you to sound hypocritical.

*chortle*
Click to expand...

Red Bull burnt their bridges. Renault will only supply them because they have to.

chrcoluk said:
I expect RB would prefer it over Renault.
Click to expand...

Based on performance, no. To avoid the awkward phone call, yes :D
 
Was reading on Twitter that there's a meeting planned next week between Mateschitz, Horner and Dr Marko to see if they can put together a budget to run the Honda engine in partnership with Mugen who are still based in Milton Keynes although quite a bit smaller than when they ran the Mugen Honda engines for Jordan etc many years ago. That can be fixed with some help from Honda and the head of Mugen (who wholly owns it) is the biggest shareholder in Honda itself and also Sochiro's son. Its doable.
 
I wonder if Red Bull buying the IP and working with Mugen might also be a route to avoid too many job-cuts when the budget cuts come in.
A few teams were investigating even setting up Indy Car operations to re-deploy staff; an engine division (presumably under "Red Bull Technology" for both RBR and AT) would potentially need a fair headcount
 
MissChief said:
Was reading on Twitter that there's a meeting planned next week between Mateschitz, Horner and Dr Marko to see if they can put together a budget to run the Honda engine in partnership with Mugen who are still based in Milton Keynes although quite a bit smaller than when they ran the Mugen Honda engines for Jordan etc many years ago. That can be fixed with some help from Honda and the head of Mugen (who wholly owns it) is the biggest shareholder in Honda itself and also Sochiro's son. Its doable.
Click to expand...

I'd love this to happen, we can't just have the big three supplying and holding back the success of their customers. Having control over their own PU is their only chance at another WCC I think. Makes no sense being a customer again while the manufacturers are also still on the grid. The sport needs the variety too because it feels like parts and designs are fast becoming a commodity rather than an individual concept.
 
GravyMonster said:
Would Mateschitz really be that interested? He's been making noises he wants to sell RB and Toro Rosso, or whatever shonky brand it's got plastered on it these days, for the last 5 years or so - basically since they stopped winning everything. Is he really to be expected to completely 180 on that and effectively triple his current F1 budget to become an engine supplier as well? Especially when starting with someone else's IP and no existing team to develop it. Seems very far fetched to me.
Click to expand...

Part of me thinks he's saying that to leverage a better deal during negotiations.
 
A Mugen-Honda style venture would be attractive in theory and has worked out well in the past (both Prost and Jordan won races with Mugen-Honda), but with these engines the expense to carry on developing them will be monumental.

I suspect that's why they're starting to whisper about pulling out.

"Please give us a good engine and don't make us go crawling back to Renault. We don't want to pretend to leave."

It's a trick as old as the hills. Ferrari have used it (Indycar in the 80s), Senna used it (Penske test to threaten F1 and McLaren), but it's not going to work on Mercedes or Ferrari, not unless there's something in it for them in return (like, say, Max Verstappen).
 
It’s worth remembering that engine development will be frozen from 2022 (I think) so there won’t be development costs, only upkeep and maintenance/replacement parts costs. If much of this equipment, plans and files are transferred to Mugen Milton Keynes then that certainly keeps costs down. Given the budget caps next season inwards RB could conceivably manage it without spending any more than they currently do.
 
Presumably "reliability" fixes will still be allowed, as they have under every freeze or homogolation thus far, so development won't stop, but will presumably slow down, or be redirected towards wherever the 2022 regulations are heading.
 
Would be the best option IMO. Any development work is likely to reliability only and probably will need to go via the FIA to prove there is no performance benefit of the upgrades.
 
What happened to Red Bull making their own engine?

I remember when they tried to brand the Renault engine as their own. Or was that just sheer arrogance at the time, thinking their tune on the engine made it completely different.
 
I hope they go back to simpler, V8 engines. Might have to now otherwise they are going to run out of manufacturers. No one likes these engines anyway :D
 
Last edited:
Nasher said:
I hope they go back to simpler, V8 engines. Might have to now otherwise they are going to run out of manufacturers. No one likes these engines anyway :D
Click to expand...
It could be a V8 but it’ll still likely be turbocharged with energy recovery and KERS. I doubt they’ll ever have a fully NA engine again.
 
Nasher said:
I hope they go back to simpler, V8 engines. Might have to now otherwise they are going to run out of manufacturers. No one likes these engines anyway :D
Click to expand...
"No one likes these engines" - Certainly a point of view ;)

As it happens, I do believe that the current crop of F1 engines are incredibly efficient (for a petrol engine) and I expect that some of the knowledge gained is going into Hybrid engines for road going vehicles.

I believe that Formula E will replace Formula One in profile, presence and popularity before too long - BRING IT ON! :)
 
Milkybk said:
That was down to title sponsorship changes and the fallout between RBR and Renault. It was agreed by all involved. Tag Heuer bought the rights to rebrand the engine, not Red Bull.

Do a basic google before posting rubbish.
Click to expand...

Tag Heuer has engineers now do they?

Red Bull claimed they modified the engine to make it better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom