Honda to quit F1 after 2021

englishpremier · 3 Oct 2020 at 20:56

I'm guessing it's because Alonso is coming back and Honda are scared

MissChief said:
All engines must be identical across all teams now. Sadly!

But Renault can charge full price, and just dump the engines on RB. Here you go there's your first allocation of engines. Sorry We've got no staff to send to your team to run it but here is the instruction manual and software.

chrismscotland · 3 Oct 2020 at 20:58

It says a lot that Honda have committed long term to IndyCar and their new engine - (into the latter part of the 2020's) obviously worth more to them than the draw of F1 is these days

chrcoluk · 3 Oct 2020 at 20:58

Steedie said:
Wow, was not expecting that!?

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...t-the-end-of-2021.3nsZ7zzaokaze5Sjc4V6s0.html

Where do Red Bull go from here? Back to Renault?

I was expecting it, the F1 rule change to nullify all the money spent on R&D for these engines, its a pretty big sticking the finger up at the manufacturers. Plus Honda have a history of going in and out of the sport. The engines are so dumned down now and F1 needs to move with the times, uncomplicated bog standard combustion engines are going to history.

Their own team pushed for it as well lol, so I bet after they couldnt care less about RB.

chrcoluk · 3 Oct 2020 at 20:59

chrismscotland said:
It says a lot that Honda have committed long term to IndyCar and their new engine - (into the latter part of the 2020's) obviously worth more to them than the draw of F1 is these days

Do indycar change their regulations every few months?

chrismscotland · 3 Oct 2020 at 21:05

chrcoluk said:
Do indycar change their regulations every few months?

Good point; the buggering about with engine modes this year in-season has been a bit of a joke

chrcoluk · 3 Oct 2020 at 21:10

A lot of people were wondering if RB would mess up the relationship with Honda, they did it in a way I was never expecting though, clearly a communication issue between the two when RB thought it was a good idea to lobby for the modes to be banned in races.

I cannot see anything other than them using Renault again, Ferrari might consider them as their own team is doing so badly, as winning with RB is better than a Ferrari engine not winning at all, but I think its a small chance, as I dont think they like to supply teams with big budgets.

MissChief · 3 Oct 2020 at 21:28

chrcoluk said:
A lot of people were wondering if RB would mess up the relationship with Honda, they did it in a way I was never expecting though, clearly a communication issue between the two when RB thought it was a good idea to lobby for the modes to be banned in races.

I cannot see anything other than them using Renault again, Ferrari might consider them as their own team is doing so badly, as winning with RB is better than a Ferrari engine not winning at all, but I think its a small chance, as I dont think they like to supply teams with big budgets.

Renault HAVE to supply them if asked as the Engine supplier supplying the fewest teams.

chrcoluk · 3 Oct 2020 at 21:59

MissChief said:
Renault HAVE to supply them if asked as the Engine supplier supplying the fewest teams.

I know, but in regards to Ferrari, Ferrari can still still do a deal with RB if RB tried that route first.

MissChief · 3 Oct 2020 at 23:50

chrcoluk said:
I know, but in regards to Ferrari, Ferrari can still still do a deal with RB if RB tried that route first.

Would anyone want a Ferrari engine right now?

deuse · 4 Oct 2020 at 10:38

MissChief said:
Would anyone want a Ferrari engine right now?

F1 should have gone with just the V6 turbo.

muon · 4 Oct 2020 at 13:07

It's obvious what F1 will have to do to survive. Have a single engine supplier who can actually benefit from some scale. At the same time engine costs can go down.

Garido · 4 Oct 2020 at 14:32

What capacity does Ferrari have to supply again and can they supply BOTH teams?

MissChief · 4 Oct 2020 at 14:38

muon said:
It's obvious what F1 will have to do to survive. Have a single engine supplier who can actually benefit from some scale. At the same time engine costs can go down.

Indycar are developing a Hybrid engine for 2023 which both Chevrolet and Honda (under American run Honda Power Developments) have agreed to. I feel that F1 should adopt this engine that will be capable of 900HP. Get the ACO onboard with this engine for LMP2 with some restrictions and we could have a universal base for lots of different classes and formula. Which would then make manufacturers look more closely.

GravyMonster · 4 Oct 2020 at 20:19

That's very good idea, with solid economic fundamentals. However we all know the FIA would never go for it because F1 is the wonder series who's engines must be specially designed out of angel tears and unicorn hair. We can't be having some American reprobate series sharing the same technology!

Flibster · 5 Oct 2020 at 09:06

In the lmp1-h era. Apparently the f1 power unit was legal for the lemans series.

Both ferrari and Renault were supposedly looking at using it.

deuse · 6 Oct 2020 at 07:45

"one alternative, which would likely require significant Red Bull commitment as well as agreement from all parties, is for Red Bull to assume Honda’s intellectual property and create a continuation programme for its engines, potentially with additional technical support from another partner"

"Honda’s F1 managing director Masashi Yamamoto said: “Honda is happy to talk to them if they need us in any way, not only about the power unit but about other things as well."

https://www.planetf1.com/news/honda-may-not-leave-red-bull-high-and-dry/

Are Red Bull ready to spend a $1 billion?

GravyMonster · 6 Oct 2020 at 11:18

Would Mateschitz really be that interested? He's been making noises he wants to sell RB and Toro Rosso, or whatever shonky brand it's got plastered on it these days, for the last 5 years or so - basically since they stopped winning everything. Is he really to be expected to completely 180 on that and effectively triple his current F1 budget to become an engine supplier as well? Especially when starting with someone else's IP and no existing team to develop it. Seems very far fetched to me.

Alibaba99 · 6 Oct 2020 at 12:22

MissChief said:
Indycar are developing a Hybrid engine for 2023 which both Chevrolet and Honda (under American run Honda Power Developments) have agreed to. I feel that F1 should adopt this engine that will be capable of 900HP. Get the ACO onboard with this engine for LMP2 with some restrictions and we could have a universal base for lots of different classes and formula. Which would then make manufacturers look more closely.

The current LMP2 cars are already around 100bhp too powerful to sit comfortably with the new Hypercar / LMDh class, so an engine with another 300bhp would have to be so neutered that you would effectively be looking at a new engine.

MissChief · 6 Oct 2020 at 14:00

Alibaba99 said:
The current LMP2 cars are already around 100bhp too powerful to sit comfortably with the new Hypercar / LMDh class, so an engine with another 300bhp would have to be so neutered that you would effectively be looking at a new engine.

Just because an engine is capable of 900HP doesn’t mean it can’t be restricted by regulations to produce less than that. Boost pressure, inlet manifold restrictions and many other ways.

deuse · 6 Oct 2020 at 14:59

GravyMonster said:
Would Mateschitz really be that interested? He's been making noises he wants to sell RB and Toro Rosso, or whatever shonky brand it's got plastered on it these days, for the last 5 years or so - basically since they stopped winning everything. Is he really to be expected to completely 180 on that and effectively triple his current F1 budget to become an engine supplier as well? Especially when starting with someone else's IP and no existing team to develop it. Seems very far fetched to me.

You forget that Andy Cowell is free to go to RB.
That would be my choice.