House prices rose 7.3% this year, average now almost £250k

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HACO said:
UK has 280,000 homeless people (66 million population). So 4.2 people out of 1000.
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That is shocking.

There are definitely possible policy solutions to the pricing issues, but what we're lacking is will. Increasing mortgage availability and making them government-backed isn't the answer. There is already far too much debt and credit dependency in this country. It seems to be promoted as the answer to most problems, because it's quick and involves booting issues into the long grass.
 
HACO said:
US median property price to median household income is 4.5x. UK is now over 8x.

Remember that thing called statistics. You can measure these stuff instead of just going by your feelings.

UK has 280,000 homeless people (66 million population). So 4.2 people out of 1000.
US has 550,000 homeless people (320 million population). So 1.7 people out of 1000.

What you've seen or haven't seen is not relevant. Statistics has been invented for several centuries.
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You do realise that statistics are useless if you aren't including majority of the effected?

We have a much better benefits system so people in the UK will register as homeless to access it.

In America it doesn't quite work the same way so you have a far larger proportion that are hidden homeless.

Maybe you should go look at DW documentaries on YouTube so you can see with your own eyes the state of homelessness in America rather than numbers on paper that don't reflect the reality.

It's the same with the census in the UK that was used earlier. Do you think illegal immigrants fill out a census? Therefore none of them are officially included in the statistics.

I can assure you that the figures are much higher in terms of population than believed. figures are massaged in this country across the whole public sector so directors can get promotions and bonuses.

The police refused to for example in the official report write that my car was vandalised even though it had a broken window, dented panel and scuffed/scraped paint.

I had to argue with someone in a station and read the law to them before they agreed to send someone out again and then they had to file a second report because once the first one was done it could not be changed. It took great effort for me to get the crime classified as what it should have been in the first place. I ended up with 3 different crime reference numbers for the same incident.

It was vandalised by accident but it was still vandalism. It was not the intention of the person to vandalise it but they acted in such an irrational manner that it was no shock damage ended up being caused.

So do you believe the statistics when they say crime is lower than ever? It's all been massaged. I've had 2 break ins on my street in 6 months. Had the police round 5 times during lockdown asking me to look through my cameras. I've never been asked before in all the time I've lived here.
 
@Psycho Sonny yet you trust stats from other countries? Anyway, the point is, is that we have an issue. I don't really want to have it out with America in a "my housing market is more dysfunctional than yours" battle.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
You do realise that statistics are useless if you aren't including majority of the effected?

We have a much better benefits system so people in the UK will register as homeless to access it.

In America it doesn't quite work the same way so you have a far larger proportion that are hidden homeless.

Maybe you should go look at DW documentaries on YouTube so you can see with your own eyes the state of homelessness in America rather than numbers on paper that don't reflect the reality.

It's the same with the census in the UK that was used earlier. Do you think illegal immigrants fill out a census? Therefore none of them are officially included in the statistics.

I can assure you that the figures are much higher in terms of population than believed. figures are massaged in this country across the whole public sector so directors can get promotions and bonuses.

The police refused to for example in the official report write that my car was vandalised even though it had a broken window, dented panel and scuffed/scraped paint.

I had to argue with someone in a station and read the law to them before they agreed to send someone out again and then they had to file a second report because once the first one was done it could not be changed. It took great effort for me to get the crime classified as what it should have been in the first place. I ended up with 3 different crime reference numbers for the same incident.

It was vandalised by accident but it was still vandalism. It was not the intention of the person to vandalise it but they acted in such an irrational manner that it was no shock damage ended up being caused.

So do you believe the statistics when they say crime is lower than ever? It's all been massaged. I've had 2 break ins on my street in 6 months. Had the police round 5 times during lockdown asking me to look through my cameras. I've never been asked before in all the time I've lived here.
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There are methods in statistics to correct for all of these, and if you get your stats from proper sources, they're almost always already corrected. And their ability to correct for these effects is better than your (or my) gut feeling because they're actually people who do these stuff for a living. You don't know about housing prices or crime rates better than Office of National Statistics for example. They hire 3500 people and have a £200 million budget to study these things.

As for crime statistics, yes I do believe it that this country (and the world) in general, has much lower crime rates than a few decades ago. There are ups and downs every year, but the trend has been consistent. If someone steals my wallet tomorrow, it doesn't change the reality. If it happened again next week, it still doesn't mean the statistics were wrong.

You're pretty much waging a war against mathematics at this point. What's next? 2+2=5 because you feel like 4 is not accurate?
 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/government-housing-target-300000-b1784575.html

The government is set to miss its housebuilding target by almost a decade after failing to invest in social housing, a new analysis has warned.
Boris Johnson has promised to increase housebuilding to 300,000 a year by the mid-2020s in a bid to tackle Britain's housing shortage.
But at the rate of increase achieved before the coronavirus lockdown, the government will not reach its target until 2032 – eight years later than planned.​

Surprising that they never miss any targets when it comes to giving tax breaks to the homeowner class. They always find money for that! But investing to build homes when we have a shortage of millions? It doesn't matter at all.
 
Having visited Detroit in 2012, I can assure you that even the scummiest council estate in the UK is a palace in comparison.
I know we are not perfect and at times we make it too easy for those who make bad decisions, but America is a perfect example of what getting it wrong on the opposite end of the scale.
Detroit has homeless people everywhere. There were even more derelict houses too.
You really have to visit Detroit to see it, however I imagine the same problems are copy+pasted all over the US.
 
OpenToSuggestions said:
Having visited Detroit in 2012, I can assure you that even the scummiest council estate in the UK is a palace in comparison.
I know we are not perfect and at times we make it too easy for those who make bad decisions, but America is a perfect example of what getting it wrong on the opposite end of the scale.
Detroit has homeless people everywhere. There were even more derelict houses too.
You really have to visit Detroit to see it, however I imagine the same problems are copy+pasted all over the US.
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But but but look at the statistics.

America is a cesspit of a country where unless you live in a gated community your pretty much stepping over homeless people everyday.
 
Barks said:
Even if the Government don't do anything (which I doubt they will) the market will eventually crash, just as it has done time and time again both here and abroad when valuations start getting too stretched.
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This govt won't do anything and is indeed ideologically opposed to doing anything as "communist" as HACO's ideas :p (Think of the Telegraph headlines!)

If the housing market does crash it won't be soon. And before it happens, things will get a lot worse. But it will get worse for the have-nots not the haves, so the Tories will turn a blind eye.

The other thing is, if the housing market does crash, the most likely outcome of that is the well-off buying up even more of the housing stock. The people losing their houses won't be Lord Smythe-Buckingham-Jones-McArthur. It'll be Joe Bloggs the plumber, and maybe even his cousin Fred the web developer. But the upper-middle class and the actually genuinely wealthy will simply be able to swoop in and buy all the repossessions.

Just accept that life is going to get worse in this country for everyone except the well-off. And accept we're in for another 50 years of Tory rule, because no matter how badly they perform, they've won the hearts and minds of the British electorate. And the other parties have done a truly stupendous job of self-destructing.

I keep wondering why I'm still here. The answer is family, literally nothing else. Without family I'd be off like a shot. The electorate are idiots and keep putting the Tories back in. e: Even down here in sunny Cornwall - we are one of the most impoverished regions in the whole of the EU! - we keep returning Tory MPs. It defies all reason and logic.
 
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FoxEye said:
I'm quite confident given our direction of travel we'll get there soon enough.
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Only if we legalise marijuana and privatise the NHS.

America's health care system is a large reason for a lot of the homeless that and their benefits system. Add legalised cheap strong drugs into the mix and you have the perfect storm.

To suggest that policies they have implemented are working and great for housing affordability is laughable. I've seen it with my own eyes I was there in late 2019.

There is no way the statistics are correct when it comes to the true state of homelessness in America.

They have charities building £10k metal sheds and putting them on the pavements for homeless folk to use as homes illegally.

Homeless people living in their cars in car parks. I walked past them and I was shocked as I'd never seen anything like that in the UK.

In the UK it's mainly addicts and outliers who end up homeless for the majority. In America it's literally anybody can and will.
 
FoxEye said:
This govt won't do anything and is indeed ideologically opposed to doing anything as "communist" as HACO's ideas :p (Think of the Telegraph headlines!)

If the housing market does crash it won't be soon. And before it happens, things will get a lot worse. But it will get worse for the have-nots not the haves, so the Tories will turn a blind eye.

The other thing is, if the housing market does crash, the most likely outcome of that is the well-off buying up even more of the housing stock. The people losing their houses won't be Lord Smythe-Buckingham-Jones-McArthur. It'll be Joe Bloggs the plumber, and maybe even his cousin Fred the web developer. But the upper-middle class and the actually genuinely wealthy will simply be able to swoop in and buy all the repossessions.
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Yeah, a random market crash will mean rich folk will just add to their portfolios, that's why it has to come alongside or as a result of sensible policies (like the ones I listed) to make sure that we return to sensible housing prices that most people can afford by removing the investment aspect of housing.

And of course, this Tory government will never do that. If prices crash, they will do something to prop up the market again.

Psycho Sonny said:
There is no way the statistics are correct when it comes to the true state of homelessness in America.
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2+2=16.25 because I feel like it.
 
HACO said:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/government-housing-target-300000-b1784575.html

The government is set to miss its housebuilding target by almost a decade after failing to invest in social housing, a new analysis has warned.
Boris Johnson has promised to increase housebuilding to 300,000 a year by the mid-2020s in a bid to tackle Britain's housing shortage.
But at the rate of increase achieved before the coronavirus lockdown, the government will not reach its target until 2032 – eight years later than planned.​

Surprising that they never miss any targets when it comes to giving tax breaks to the homeowner class. They always find money for that! But investing to build homes when we have a shortage of millions? It doesn't matter at all.
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The Government don't build houses. It's pretty much entirely private, and then we even have social care housing privatised as well these days.
 
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