House prices rose 7.3% this year, average now almost £250k

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HACO said:
Yeah, a random market crash will mean rich folk will just add to their portfolios, that's why it has to come alongside or as a result of sensible policies (like the ones I listed) to make sure that we return to sensible housing prices that most people can afford by removing the investment aspect of housing.

And of course, this Tory government will never do that. If prices crash, they will do something to prop up the market again.



2+2=16.25 because I feel like it.
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Quite.
In crashes the rich get richer. Even more quickly than day to day BAU

Look at amazon, they just purchased some jumbo jets for cargo. No doubt they moped up a few cheap that the commercial airlines were happy to offload.

And the BTL landlords making use of the ridiculous stamp duty break
 
413x said:
Quite.
In crashes the rich get richer. Even more quickly than day to day BAU

Look at amazon, they just purchased some jumbo jets for cargo. No doubt they moped up a few cheap that the commercial airlines were happy to offload.

And the BTL landlords making use of the ridiculous stamp duty break
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If the market crashes a lot of 'BTL landlords' and 'the rich' stand to lose out as they're already invested and in many cases overleveraged. A healthy nationwide house price correction will benefit the younger generation and first time buyers immeasurably more than presenting entry opportunities for wealthy investors. Although I agree with Haco, the Gov will just move onto the next scheme to artifically inflate prices. I think the Tories especially are going to be in serious trouble in the future as their policies have irrefutably left young people to rot and widened intergenerational wealth inequality.
 
moon man said:
Around here the older houses bought for peanuts decades ago are bought, ripped down and a replacement dwelling, usually a glass box type goes up, often left empty most of the year


https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/101816426#/

This one is demolished now I was there last week, he'll of a plot through!! (sold 1.27m)

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-p...l?prop=54386272&sale=55092827&country=england
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Wow , serious prices . Beautiful part of the world as well .

We fell in love with Rock just round the corner and often stay at the St Enodoc Hotel .

We’ve just sold and our purchase has fallen through , going to move into one of my BTL and sit on the market for a while as we’re planning on moving to to the Truro area now from Chelmsford - time to cash in .

Could be a 10 to 15% correction at the end of the summer we think , either way we’ll wait until it become a buyers market again which it realty isn’t .
 
Market's completely dried up here...nothing coming on the market, glad we managed to buy between the lockdowns when a small number of properties came on the market.
 
Bald-Eagle22 said:
Wow , serious prices . Beautiful part of the world as well .

We fell in love with Rock just round the corner and often stay at the St Enodoc Hotel .

We’ve just sold and our purchase has fallen through , going to move into one of my BTL and sit on the market for a while as we’re planning on moving to to the Truro area now from Chelmsford - time to cash in .

Could be a 10 to 15% correction at the end of the summer we think , either way we’ll wait until it become a buyers market again which it realty isn’t .
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Yes in polzeath as I type this sat on a rock on beach may have a stroll to Rock.
We were lucky to pick up place on a hill with land for another house for near 100k not long ago (this is doubted in most threads I say this but hey ho) basically sold up and came down with the cash, sleeping in the car sometimes to save money.
 
HACO said:
Yeah, a random market crash will mean rich folk will just add to their portfolios
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Can you explain to me your logic here as I disagree. The 'rich folk' you describe mostly put their capital to work in investments, very few people actually keep large swathes of dry powder in the form of cash in bank accounts. If the housing market goes down it won't just be lower paid home-owning workers who suffer, it'll be overleveraged middle class people with large property portfoios with no tenants to pay the rent forced into distressed selling. It's also unlikely people will lap up property if the economic prospects are grim and the markets have wiped out their investment returns. What a crash will do is return the irrefutably insane house price:wages ratio to more realistic and sustainable levels and with that present an opportunity to non home owning workers with reasonable salaries (assuming they don't lose their jobs with the crash) but not enough capital to get on the exisitng ladder. In short, a correction wlll not solely act as a 'dip buying' exercise for the rich. You don't need a crystal ball to predict the future just look what happened after the GFC.
 
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Barks said:
Can you explain to me your logic here as I disagree. The 'rich folk' you describe mostly put their capital to work in investments, very few people actually keep large swathes of dry powder in the form of cash in bank accounts. If the housing market goes down it won't just be lower paid home-owning workers who suffer, it'll be overleveraged middle class people with large property portfoios with no tenants to pay the rent forced into distressed selling. It's also unlikely people will lap up property if the economic prospects are grim and the markets have wiped out their investment returns. What a crash will do is return the irrefutably insane house price:wages ratio to more realistic and sustainable levels and with that present an opportunity to non home owning workers with reasonable salaries (assuming they don't lose their jobs with the crash) but not enough capital to get on the exisitng ladder. In short, a correction wlll not solely act as a 'dip buying' exercise for the rich. You don't need a crystal ball to predict the future just look what happened after the GFC.
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I didn't say it 'solely' acts as a dip buying opportunity for the rich, but most of the benefit goes to the rich, unless coupled with policies to make sure that it doesn't happen, like ones similar to what I listed in previous pages.

And we're talking about a different kind of 'rich folk' here, I'm not talking about the average guy down the street that has 5 BTL properties and can afford a Tesla, that guy might go down during a crash. I'm talking about the people with £100mn+ net worth, family offices managing billions of pounds of wealth, investment funds or hedge funds that have hundreds of properties in tens of different countries and access to super cheap or free capital given the QE and lower interest rates that happens during market downturns, and the willingness of the banks to lend to people/institutions with super high net worths. It's those people that come in and wipe the market clean during a downturn.

Step away from principles of personal finance for you and I, and the perception of 'rich people' as a rich version of people like you and I. Cash in bank is only a thing for us. Once you're really rich, you never spend with cash.
 
HACO said:
. . . I'm not talking about the average guy down the street that has 5 BTL properties and can afford a Tesla . . .
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Why not?

These people are the ones who are ensuring that the young can't get on the ladder to own their own homes, they aren't some philanthropic carers any more than the Russian and Saudi money launderers are.

As to "Buy To Let" (BTL), it should be "Buy To Exploit" (BTE) :mad:
 
stockhausen said:
Why not?

These people are the ones who are ensuring that the young can't get on the ladder to own their own homes, they aren't some philanthropic carers any more than the Russian and Saudi money launderers are.

As to "Buy To Let" (BTL), it should be "Buy To Exploit" (BTE) :mad:
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Context my friend, context.
 
moon man said:
Yes in polzeath as I type this sat on a rock on beach may have a stroll to Rock.
We were lucky to pick up place on a hill with land for another house for near 100k not long ago (this is doubted in most threads I say this but hey ho) basically sold up and came down with the cash, sleeping in the car sometimes to save money.
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Notice your in St Breward ,used to stay there on holidays as a kid ( dad was a hiker ) . You really are a lucky guy .
 
It's probably not at all surprising that the market is drying up. We're approaching the end of the stamp-duty holiday, and unless there's an easy sale (i.e. empty property / no mortgage required), in most cases you wouldn't be able to complete in time, which would mean getting stung with a hefty extra fee that needs paying.
 
Bald-Eagle22 said:
Notice your in St Breward ,used to stay there on holidays as a kid ( dad was a hiker ) . You really are a lucky guy .
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Cheers its a nice place I'm nearer the camel trail than the village centre (great cycle into Padstow) beats west Yorkshire where I spent most of my life, tbh some can't cope with the quietness had afew move from the city only to find it boring but I'm a keen walker also and a bodyboarder so it's perfect
 
stockhausen said:
Why not?

These people are the ones who are ensuring that the young can't get on the ladder to own their own homes, they aren't some philanthropic carers any more than the Russian and Saudi money launderers are.

As to "Buy To Let" (BTL), it should be "Buy To Exploit" (BTE) :mad:
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Strongly agree with this and whilst legislation has changed and made BTL less appealing, a lot of investors certainly benefited from the rising tide of house prices driven by looser monetary conditions. That said, I think a lot of them are now struggling, particularly in London. Many of my colleagues are 25-30 and have mentioned this year their rents have gone down or they've moved and upgraded to superior properties with cheaper rents. One of my close friends has a large portfolio both inside and outside of London and is selling due to vacancy rates. It seems to be a bizarre situation of rising house prices (irrefutably this is temporary and driven by Sunak's ridiculous SDLT break, that's if you believe the statistics) but also declining rental yields. One, in addition to the SDLT cut, reflects artifically loose financial conditions because of wreckless central bank action and QE, the other (the latter) reflects issues with the economy which is in ruins. The more I think about it the more I look forward to quoting this message in 1-2 years time when all the cards come tumbling down as monetary and fiscal stimulus is withdrawn. I stand to lose a lot personally but as far as I'm concerned house prices adjusted for inflation are in dangerous territory.
 
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If there was a huge market crash as some people seem to be dreaming of, you're not going to be able to get a mortgage to take advantage. It's cash buyers and people with assets that will be the ones snapping up properties.

Another thing, BTL will always exist. Many BTL properties house people on housing benefit, so the money is coming directly from tax payers. This practice won't ever end, not in our lifetimes.
 
neocon said:
Another thing, BTL will always exist. Many BTL properties house people on housing benefit, so the money is coming directly from tax payers. This practice won't ever end, not in our lifetimes.
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Oh yes. When I talk to homeowners that don't care about the broken housing market I like to point out that they are infact also propping it up and directly paying into landlord's pockets.

Private landlords get £9.3bn in housing benefit from taxpayer

So, as a tenant I get to pay off my landlord's mortgage and pay my taxes to pay off other landlord's mortgages. Fantastic! :rolleyes:

I'm still hankering for a crash. My girlfriend and I have a generous deposit, just not quite generous enough for what we'd want to buy around here. If prices crash that'd mean a lower LTV for us and probably no issues getting a mortgage. In an ideal world that would mean that finally our sensible money-saving habits engrained in our youth will actually come to fruition - rather than sitting there paying into a pathetic 0.5% ISA and not even breaking even over inflation like we've spent the last XX years doing! :rolleyes:
 
Scam said:
Oh yes. When I talk to homeowners that don't care about the broken housing market I like to point out that they are infact also propping it up and directly paying into landlord's pockets.
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Ok how so? I'm a homeowner how exactly am I paying directly into a landlords pocket unless you mean by my tax being paid to people on benefits that is then used to house them but that's totally out of my control.
 
Scam said:
Oh yes. When I talk to homeowners that don't care about the broken housing market I like to point out that they are infact also propping it up and directly paying into landlord's pockets.

Private landlords get £9.3bn in housing benefit from taxpayer

So, as a tenant I get to pay off my landlord's mortgage and pay my taxes to pay off other landlord's mortgages. Fantastic! :rolleyes:

I'm still hankering for a crash. My girlfriend and I have a generous deposit, just not quite generous enough for what we'd want to buy around here. If prices crash that'd mean a lower LTV for us and probably no issues getting a mortgage. In an ideal world that would mean that finally our sensible money-saving habits engrained in our youth will actually come to fruition - rather than sitting there paying into a pathetic 0.5% ISA and not even breaking even over inflation like we've spent the last XX years doing! :rolleyes:
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Sadly, when the market crashes, mortgage availability also goes down. High LTV mortgages disappear too and mortgage interest rates go up on all mortgages except those with 60% LTV or less. And your 90% LTV might now be 85% LTV, but there interest rate would shot up from 1.79% to 3.49%, meaning you'd be paying more in monthly payments than you would have otherwise.

The whole system is F'ed up.

Maundie said:
Ok how so? I'm a homeowner how exactly am I paying directly into a landlords pocket unless you mean by my tax being paid to people on benefits that is then used to house them but that's totally out of my control.
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What he's saying is that the whole system is set up to benefit BTL landlords, even when people don't actively participate in it. Just by being alive, you're helping BTL landlords. UK has always historically been about land ownership, people exist to serve the land owner class, and despite the appearances, it's not any different now compared to 1000 years ago.
 
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