By all means enlighten us...
House prices rose 7.3% this year, average now almost £250k
- Thread starter HACO
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All either starting auction prices, or cash-only due to not being mortgageable (lease ending soon, non-standard build, etc), or just 25% ownership of a 500k flat.
Caporegime
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Market value is the price an item or service sells for in an open competitive market depending on various factors including supply and demand.
But someone who never buys anything and just complains about rising prices and refusing to purchase when anything goes up in value I can see you struggle with such a concept.
To you prices should only ever go down.
Not quite. Rising prices (well above inflation) and stagnant wages is not a combination I delight in.
Clearly those conditions benefit the few (with assets appreciating well above inflation), but it hurts the working classes. And I'm a man of the people
As for scalpers... they are opportunistic scum.
Yeah, scalpers like ticket touts can provide a useful service... the dad for whom the PS5 wasn't even on his radar until the press stories about shortages and the kids suddenly asking for one fro Christmas etc.. for him he might well be happy to pay £800 for one etc.. it's worth that much to him to secure one etc... Likewise, the guy taking a girl out to the West End, she suggests a play or musical but it is sold out - he goes to a ticket tout or concierge service or re-seller website and pays over the odds to secure one.
Both of those things are valid - allocation doesn't have to be just down to who can sit on the internet and try to be first in line etc...
I guess the frustrating aspect is when there is so much demand and too many scalpers - if the scalpers end up selling to someone who was actively trying to get a place in the queue and missed out on one only because of the presence of scalpers then for those people it's just an added friction. In the case of PS5s there was way more demand and really minimal risk for the scalpers or at least in terms of finding a seller (they might still have the risk of being scammed).
For the touts at concerts, musicals,. plays etc... they do take on some risk, they're providing a secondary market and regularly putting out bids for tickets to passers-by - they have to carry some inventory or their business isn't viable and the inventory they do carry is time-sensitive and has no value at all once the performance is over + limited value once it is a good way past starting.
It might be better to cut out the touts or scalpers for stuff that is known to be in such high demand, in theory, that should lead to the price being set higher in the first place but then again for stuff like PS5s that would prompt outcry from the people who hope to get one later and cause negative press.
Perhaps they could change the allocation model (easier if they were able to cut out retailers too) - perhaps mostly allocate the first batch via some first come first serve system - give initial priority to existing PS4 owners via PSN... should make things more difficult for scalpers, allocate a smaller (but perhaps double digit %) portion to be actively bid for in some open market and drip feed them to that market over time... The super keen PS fanboys can get in the front of the line with less thread from scalpers and the wealthy people who can afford to pay for an early allocation can go to the PS5 market, see the current price for the limited ongoing release via that method and decide whether they want to pay £800 to secure one for Christmas.
Caporegime
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I'm sorry but PlayStation's sell out every launch. It's happened 4 times previously doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out it would happen again.
Websites allow pre orders. The website I ordered from had pre orders open for weeks. But you had to put a fiver or something down up front.
If you are too dumb to know this and are forced to pay over the odds then I'm sorry that's your problem. Everyone has had fair warning.
As for spending all day on the internet that doesn't need to happen either. Take a day off work if need be people should have plenty of annual leave thanks to Covid. I mean taking a day of annual leave to save £350 is probably a better use than working and then spending £800 on a Ps5.
It's only idiots buying these ps5's. If their kids wanted one they should have pre ordered. Again plenty of notice is given around launches and pre order dates. It's how I got one.
Websites allow pre orders. The website I ordered from had pre orders open for weeks. But you had to put a fiver or something down up front.
If you are too dumb to know this and are forced to pay over the odds then I'm sorry that's your problem. Everyone has had fair warning.
As for spending all day on the internet that doesn't need to happen either. Take a day off work if need be people should have plenty of annual leave thanks to Covid. I mean taking a day of annual leave to save £350 is probably a better use than working and then spending £800 on a Ps5.
It's only idiots buying these ps5's. If their kids wanted one they should have pre ordered. Again plenty of notice is given around launches and pre order dates. It's how I got one.
Well not really, you're a poster on a computer forum, you know the PS5 is coming when it will be released...it's naive to assume that say a 50 year old bloke working 10 hours a day in some law firm necessarily knows or gives a **** about the latest PS5 until his son reminds him that he wants one for Christmas or he sees the press stories about it selling out when reading metro on the tube. Maybe he sees the paper and remembers that was the thing his son was after and damn he'd best find a way to get it now. But if he's earning 300k a year then he doesn't necessarily care too much about spending an extra £300 to keep his kid happy at Christmas?
There is clearly a market for people wanting to spend £800 or whatever on these things, I wouldn't assume they were all completely familiar with the release date and whether it would likely sell out or necessarily familiar with PS consoles in general if they're not even buying for themselves.
Caporegime
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Hardly a sob story in that instance then is it that some poor family cannot afford a Ps5 due to scalpers if he's on £300k a year
Who said it was a sob story - why would you think that poor families are the ones paying close to a grand to get a PS5?
Do I need to remind you of a couple things..
1. The eBay scalpers are paying no tax and are not set up as businesses.
2. The people buying from scalpers have virtually no consumer rights.
Arguing in favour of scalpers is both arguing for reduced tax intake and for reduced consumer rights.
Retailers add value because they have to deal with consumer returns, etc. Wholesalers and distributors do/will not deal with the public. And there's likely a minimum purchase value/amount that no consumer is going to meet (ie you buy in lots of 100 or 1000 or whatever).
Scalpers *remove* value. If you'd bought at a retailer you'd be buying from a business and have consumer rights.
Scalpers *increase* the cost but do not open up the market to people who *couldn't* buy from a retailer.
Arguing in favour of scalpers is basically saying, "let's not pay tax; let's screw consumers". That's *exactly* what they do.
Caporegime
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Like I said before show me the gun pointed at you saying you must buy from scalpers?
Your talking as if nobody has a choice in the matter.
Who cares? People can spend their money how they want and people can buy whatever they want and sell it on if they want.
Again your arguing for communism.
Paying tax and having consumer rights is communism now?
You know, this "communism" sounds OK...
Caporegime
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How do you know they aren't paying tax?
As for consumer rights should we get rid of all second hand purchases?
Again show me the gun pointed at their heads forcing them to buy off eBay?
You are missing the biggest point. People can do whatever they want and you don't want them to do it. That is communism.
We all know they aren't paying tax, lol.
They aren't second-hand purchases either. Consoles are sold as "new", have never been used, aren't registered to any previous owner.
They are acting as a business and should be taxed as a business on their profits. As a business, they should also have to comply with consumer law.
Wonder how many scalpers would be left standing after that... probably a tiny fraction of what we see today.
No they can't, and no it's not. Letting people do whatever they want is actually anarchy, not communism.
We already have laws and rights precisely to protect people from the most unscrupulous in society. To protect against unbridled capitalism. Capitalism with no limits and no morality. We don't want that, so we regulate to avoid it.
Caporegime
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You don't pay tax on the first £1k you earn through self assessment.
Therefore I could sell 4 ps5's before I hand over like £20 in tax. Because I can minus expenses.
Not everyone on there selling a single console had 50 of them to sell.
Most folk sold one and as that's all they could get a hold of. Many retailers didn't allow you to order more than one.
Yes. Market regulation is communism. This is getting comical.
I'm guessing he was also against regulating the Payday Loan companies, because the same logic and argument would apply to them too.
In fact let's ask.
@Psycho Sonny Were you against regulating the Payday Loan companies? They were just "doing what they wanted" and "nobody was pointing a gun at people forcing them to use their services."
So regulating the Payday Loan companies must be "communism" right?
Oh, wait, what about those Fixed Odds Betting Terminal... more "communism", because we regulated those a bit too. Betting companies were just "doing what they wanted" and nobody was forced to place bets.
I guess this country is quite "communist" already!
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Caporegime
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Still yet to see this gun that's been held to people's heads forcing them to buy Ps5 off eBay.
Nobody is forced to buy from Tesco either. Tesco should be completely deregulated.
Nobody is forced to buy from Asda either. Asda should be completely deregulated.
Nobody is forced to buy from John Lewis either. John Lewis should be completely deregulated.
This is fun.
I want "communism" and it turns out you want complete anarchy! Survival of the fittest!
Since tax is communism, I hope you've got money to pay for a private armed force to keep you and your possessions safe. Otherwise you might find someone fitter than you are taking your crap away..
Deleted User 298457
Deleted User 298457
Oh god you've got them started on shared ownership now
40s the new 30. He'll be posting a thread like that chap with the 18yo fiance who doesn't allow him to see old friends soon enough.Ps. He's 40
@FoxEye are you on minimum wage? You talk about wages a lot, and how they haven't risen. But have you put any effort into getting promoted or finding a career that pays well?
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