How and why the hell do people defend the actions of travellers?

[dowie]

You used a racist remark - next time please email one of the Dons rather than post on the forum.

Just to be clear for anyone reading the thread as that statement (and a deleted post) makes it look like I actually said something racist, which I didn't - I didn't use a racist remark in any context other than as a comparison - I compared the shortened version of gypsy to another ethnic slur beginning with p - I didn't use the slur per say, I included it in my post. It was in reply to another poster asking is 'gypsy' racist - no it isn't but the shortened version is just as the shortened version of pakistani is - the comparison which I made...

To be clear - I feel that using either directed at an individual is abhorrent.

 

[Castiel]

Are you implying that Travellers are an ethnic group? :/

Legally they are, albeit under different criteria than those of Roma and their subgroups.

 

[dowie]

Are you implying that Travellers are an ethnic group? :/

I'm stating that they are... which they are in law...

 

[Marky]

Just to be clear for anyone reading the thread as that statement (and a deleted post) makes it look like I actually said something racist, which I didn't - I didn't use a racist remark in any context other than as a comparison - I compared the shortened version of gypsy to another ethnic slur beginning with p - I didn't use the slur per say, I included it in my post. It was in reply to another poster asking is 'gypsy' racist - no it isn't but the shortened version is just as the shortened version of pakistani is - the comparison which I made...

To be clear - I feel that using either directed at an individual is abhorrent.

Sorry it came across like that. You're right, but it had to be deleted. Sounds like you understand though And to be clear - all of this could have been avoided had you emailed a Don

 

[Collider]

Although I have no time for them, who actually defends them and their actions when it comes down to it?

There isn't enough done about the things they do wrong but I don't see a huge amount of people lining up to shout how great they are either. Behaviours are 'tolerated' because they know how to exploit the law.

 

[dowie]

just for reference:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-16612148

A woman who called travelling people "***** filth" on Facebook has been fined.

Susanne Elliott, 65, admitted posting threatening and abusive comments on a page set up to discuss an encampment in Stonehaven, Aberdeenshire.

Elliott, of Steyning, West Sussex, called the group "scum".

At Stonehaven Sheriff Court, Sheriff Peter Hammond ordered Elliott to pay a £300 fine for "unacceptable, intolerant and defamatory" comments.

 

[dowie]

Sorry it came across like that. You're right, but it had to be deleted. Sounds like you understand though And to be clear - all of this could have been avoided had you emailed a Don

no worries - tis partly me being inept and not knowing quite how to contact you

I was just trying to make a point that they are an ethnic group... people making generalisations or derogatory comments about them are doing something not to dissimilar from people making derogatory comments about other minority groups.

There are obviously lots of problems amongst some traveler groups but people calling them all '*****'s or scum etc.. isn't helpful.

 

[Marky]

no worries - tis partly me being inept and not knowing quite how to contact you

I was just trying to make a point that they are an ethnic group... people making generalisations or derogatory comments about them are doing something not to dissimilar from people making derogatory comments about other minority groups.

Cool cool
To be honest, I had no idea they were considered an "ethnic group"... Seems really bizarre to me :/ So is the group just called "Travellers"?

 

[dowie]

'Irish Travelers' are an ethnic group recognised in law... I'd guess people of Romany Gypsy descent are also considered an ethnic group.

 

[RomanNose]

Has your council provided enough land for them?
We used to have gypsy problems a few years back but it all cleared up when they created a permanent site.

 

[Marky]

Has your council provided enough land for them?
We used to have gypsy problems a few years back but it all cleared up when they created a permanent site.

Thing I have against this is... Why the heck should we have to do that? We'll probably have to clean up after them aswell! All for people who refuse to pay any tax :/

 

[craptakular]

Hitler had it right.

 

[233]

they are in no way an "ethnic" group

I could up sticks tomorrow buy a transit tipper and a caravan and come pitch up in your local kids playpark with a couple of vicious dogs and basically destroy the local area. So If I suddenly decide to become a horrible blight on society and basically a scumbag your saying i'm suddenly part of an ethnic group?

don't forget you have gypsies (generally ok) show people(again hardworking generally decent people) and then Travellers(insert your own comment in case the police hunt me down here). Their pretty easy to tell apart. If they are selling you pegs their Gypsies, if they have a multimillion pound fairground ride and a caravan that puts your average house to shame their show people, If they have an armful of lead off your roof and your lawnmower in the back of their transit your probably safe to assume that they are travellers

 

[RomanNose]

Thing I have against this is... Why the heck should we have to do that? We'll probably have to clean up after them aswell! All for people who refuse to pay any tax :/

It's much harder to avoid tax when you have a permanent address.
I would imagine they probably slip through a pennies past them but it would be pretty hard to avoid council tax.

 

[Collider]

Has your council provided enough land for them?
We used to have gypsy problems a few years back but it all cleared up when they created a permanent site.

To sound like NIMBY for a moment, why should my council fund that?

Why should I, as a council tax payer, fund a site for people to live on so they don't trespass, steal and dump rubbish? In fact why should we pay for other people to live on a site effectively for nothing.

I don't think there should be sites for travellers funded from the public purse I am afraid because on the whole they make no contribution to the public purse.

 

[estebanrey]

I understood the gist of what you were saying, thus I only quoted the part that I felt needed a little clarification.

But you've not clarified but veered off onto a different subject. I was talking about 'race' you are talking about 'ethnic groups' which isn't the same thing.

People who live in the Basque region of Spain for example could be described as a separate 'ethnic group' to other Spaniards but they aren't a different 'race'.

Race is biological label, ethnicity is generally more a cultural label.

 

[~>Dg<~]

Are you implying that Travellers are an ethnic group? :/

Romany Gypsies and Irish Travellers are legally recognised as ethnic groups, and protected from discrimination by the Race Relations Act (1976, amended 2000) and the Human Rights Act (1998)

so as posted before in every other gypo thread

so despite what anyone thinks they are classed as a ethnic group by law and not by ocuk .

i think if you cant talk about other ethnic races the same then why can you talk in such derogatory terms about travellers on ocuk ?

 

[233]

To sound like NIMBY for a moment, why should my council fund that?

Why should I, as a council tax payer, fund a site for people to live on so they don't trespass, steal and dump rubbish? In fact why should we pay for other people to live on a site effectively for nothing.

I don't think there should be sites for travellers funded from the public purse I am afraid because on the whole they make no contribution to the public purse.

because some handwringing wishy washy liberal brow beats those in power until they concede that these poor abused traveller ethnicals need a multi million pound investment into sites for them to destroy despite being nothing more than a pimple on the backside of society.

being a traveller is a way of life not a bleeding ethnic group and as soon as these idiots realise that its just a life choice of being (insert choice of phrase here) the better

 

[RomanNose]

To sound like NIMBY for a moment, why should my council fund that?

Why should I, as a council tax payer, fund a site for people to live on so they don't trespass, steal and dump rubbish? In fact why should we pay for other people to live on a site effectively for nothing.

I don't think there should be sites for travellers funded from the public purse I am afraid because on the whole they make no contribution to the public purse.

It's probably cheaper than locking them up or destroying property and littering.
Isn't it like 40k a year or something ridiculous to lock someone up? They won't change so tbh it's far more cost effective to just buy them a field.

 

[InKursion]

I blame Hitler.

Sorry to invoke Godwin so early in the thread but basically ever since the persecution of the Jews we've become so scared pf producing another Adolf we've decided (or rather Guardian readers have) that having a pop at any group of people that could be considered a "community" is intrinsically a bad thing and only a step away from advocating mass genocide.

This now means if you are in a minority group, you can basically do what the hell you want because any criticism can be answered with the race card (even though Gypsies aren't a race but try telling that to Shami Chakrabarti) or claims of 'persecution'.

This is a truly idiotic post.

Persecution of gypsies in Europe goes back for many many centuries, since long before Hitler. Nazism changed nothing in this regard, really. Least of all some sort of Guardian-reading liberal conspiracy. If anything, it's because of the promotion of 'multiculturalism' and attitudes of tolerance and understanding - nothing to do with the Holocaust!