How are we affording all this welfare?

[cheesyboy]

If every country in the world is in net debt (except Norway and one or two other smaller economies), who are they in debt to?

Rhetorical question, really. Just introducing the absurdity of worrying too much about public 'borrowing' (within reason)

 

[Bear]

If every country in the world is in net debt (except Norway and one or two other smaller economies), who are they in debt to?

Rhetorical question, really. Just introducing the absurdity of worrying too much about public 'borrowing' (within reason)

Even Norway has a national debt, it’s 37% of GDP. It’s wealth fund could probably pay it off easily but for some reason they keep it at 37%. Probably because the returns of the fund are greater than the interest payments on the debt at a guess

 

[R.P.L]

If every country in the world is in net debt (except Norway and one or two other smaller economies), who are they in debt to?

Rhetorical question, really. Just introducing the absurdity of worrying too much about public 'borrowing' (within reason)

Well the system has to be based on the belief that the debt will be repaid, and not purely through printing money. Whether we've passed that point or not is debatable - I suspect that we have and people are just trying to keep the pretence going as long as possible.

 

[arknor]

essentials is where they'll claw it all back, gas electric water council tax vat especially on products working class people buy

yes we need more tax on alchohol that costs over 50quid a bottle and other luxury items like watches that cost thousands of pounds.

instead they tax sugar, tobacco and cheap alcohol

 

[bloodiedathame]

By taxing corporations properly

 

[inogen]

Things like this isn't helping

I'm all for people doing well, but there comes a point where that money needs to go back into the business. Automation and efficiency is one thing, but over time more and more people will need welfare. MPs actually spoke about this problem years ago but nobody listened. I believe things will get much worse, then much much worse to the point governments will be forced into making a fundamental change. Welfare is going to grow, no two ways about it. People can only be taxed so far, before they start thinking what's the point. Hell, we're only in 2020 and I'm thinking it. I had a payrise for a promotion, but the majority has gone on tax. I might as well earn a little bit less for a lot less stress. Then I'm not paying as much tax, and the government becomes worse off.

That's because the tax system is basically regressive. Income tax should be progressive but is implemented in a regressive way and is almost entirely levied on people who can, compared with others, ill afford to pay the rates imposed. Unfortunately, tax reduction on middle on earners has largely come from increased national debt and regressive tax increases levied on the poor. The richest have been allowed to become richer and richer. People vote for it though as they're essentially short sighted, ignorant and selfish.

The only way out of it I can see is universal income and some sort of international corporation tax system. Without that, I'm afraid western democracy will fail.

 

[R.P.L]

That's because the tax system is basically regressive. Income tax should be progressive but is implemented in a regressive way and is almost entirely levied on people who can, compared with others, ill afford to pay the rates imposed. Unfortunately, tax reduction on middle on earners has largely come from increased national debt and regressive tax increases levied on the poor. The richest have been allowed to become richer and richer. People vote for it though as they're essentially short sighted, ignorant and selfish.

The only way out of it I can see is universal income and some sort of international corporation tax system. Without that, I'm afraid western democracy will fail.

Universal income will solve nothing. I agree that the tax system is in need of review though.

 

[BigT]

Current and future generations will pay for it. To reduce debt you do one of two things, either increase your income or decrease you outgoings. The biggest of those for the UK government is pretty clear so expect one or much more likely a combination of:

• increase in income tax
• increase in national insurance
• increase in VAT
• reduction in pensions (or more likely removal of triple lock increases)
• reduction in healthcare funding

They're by far the heaviest influences and something is probably going to have to give on one of those fronts which is traditionally resisted. All hugely unpopular so the Government will probably decide on the basis of who alienates their voter base the least sadly.

 

[EyeDot]

Given this is impacting the entire world, like we did for WW1/2, I fully expect the world bank to create some 0.1-0.5% C19 Bonds, repayable over 50-100 years, available to every country for up to 15-30% of their GDP.
Effectively wiping out the entire cost of C19.

The alternative is we'll see a global recession the likes of which we've never seen in 3 generations, which will inevitably lead to famine, death and war.

Which seems more logical?

 

[Chrisc]

Bill China

Is that Edds brother?

 

[Minusorange]

Are we going to go bankrupt one day or is it just a case of how it's all managed and just a small percentage of people on it?

https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

If countries were held to the same rules as businesses, they'd all be bankrupt years ago

If every nation is in debt and boy it's a whole lot of debt, where is that debt owed ? To private corporations buying debt bonds ? What happens if countries decide to not pay back the bonds do the corporations now go bust as well ? The whole national debt system is illogical

 

[rainbowGuy]

i wonder if the previous years of austerity helped us get our debt down/save interest on our loan etc?
i also dont like the furlough scheme whereby you are on furlough and can work another job! that 2nd job could go to someone truly deserving..

 

[GGizmo]

There tends to be two ways to get out of a bad financial situation for a country, austerity - were we increase taxes and screw everyone down until debts are paid off, or spend our way out.

I think if Boris had announced austerity he had better get on his bike and peddle fast!

 

[HACO]

Welfare everywhere, basically encouraging people to take it now, here's a new one I noticed from Scotland for example, maybe that's just a drop in the ocean but over last 20 years plenty of new welfare. Are we going to go bankrupt one day or is it just a case of how it's all managed and just a small percentage of people on it?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifest...amilies-receive-invitation-apply-22428263.amp

It's created out of thin air. Government borrows from HM Treasury, who will just update some numbers on a computer and new money is created.

UK has a sovereign currency, it can't go bankrupt by definition. It doesn't mean there aren't consequences for printing limitless amounts of money though, the biggest is hyperinflation.

 

[McBain]

Taxes, lots of taxes.

 

[Pen66]

Remember that £1 billion bung to the DUP? Yeah, that magic money tree.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

Borrow, borrow, borrow, borrow. Mortgage the future.

 

[inogen]

Universal income will solve nothing. I agree that the tax system is in need of review though.

Universal income will solve things. It gets rid of the benefits system for a start and rids HMRC of a **** load of admin.

What it requires is a shift in mentality. Taxes should be mostly levied on companies, not individuals or consumption. That money is redistributed through services and an income that allows people the freedom not to work. UI is not a panacea by any means, but it's part of a different way of allocating resources and distributing wealth away from the very wealthy.

Of course, It's unlikely to happen because people are conditioned to see the economy as something where they put time in and receive wages out.

 

[R.P.L]

Universal income will solve things. It gets rid of the benefits system for a start.

I can't see it doing anything other than causing inflation.

 

[inogen]

I can't see it doing anything other than causing inflation.

That's why it needs to be part of a fairer tax system and better control over money supply. It wouldn't be easy, but the current direction we're heading in is catastrophic.

However, even a low universal income could be introduced as a direct swap out for the tax thresholds and benefits with zero effect on money supply. Of course no British govt would begin to conceive of that because they would see it as an erosion of the proletariat work ethic. Given that British governments are controlled by mercantile and renting classes, that won't be viewed as positive no matter the dangers of the status quo.

They'll do it somewhere though, probably somewhere Scando and we'll end up doing a half arsed version 30 years after as usual.