Poll: How do you game? Upscaling or native? (updated poll choices - 24/12, revote!)

[Nexus18]

FSR3 Frame Gen is getting used by everyone inc yourself?

Why is it an issue for you that AMD open source their tech?

Bold statement, should we create a poll to see how many are actually using frame gen? So far, I don't think many people are actually using FSR 3/FG due to the mentioned issues surrounding, "noticeable" artifacts, broken frame pacing with VRR, HDR issues but alas it's seems to be hit and miss depending on the end users setup as evidenced in the fsr 3 thread and in depth analytical videos by the likes of DF/Alex.

As of now, I'm using it in one game I am playing right now, cp 2077 with PT (which we all know, needs US and FG).

Where I have said amd making open source stuff is an issue for me?

However, if amd were to take ownership of their solutions where they are solely responsible for the improvements and uptake, they could possibly be in a better situation and their solutions could be on par with nvidias solutions especially if they were to tailor it in such a way which would utilise RDNAs strengths but of course, this would mean them having to dedicate engineering time to such solutions and working with developers more to have better uptake. Working in the development industry and having used both open and closed source solutions, each has their strengths and weaknesses but as customers wanting a solution which "just works" and doesn't require huge time from our engineering side to "figure out", closed source generally wins, you aren't just paying for a solution which has been QC thoroughly but also paying for the customer service.

Intel arguably have the best approach right now with xess, it's open source and out there for people to tinker but as shown, they are very much taking ownership of making improvements to it (where as amd are throwing it to the community/developers to run free with it, which is exactly what amd have said they like about open source approach themselves in interviews with Alex and way back in the day with Roy) but alas, their partnership/outreach capabilities is obviously poor given the lack of uptake for xess.

Do you not want to see FSR improve to match DLSS? How do you propose that is done? So that the likes of myself who favour upscaling can have an option to move away from nvidia? (saying just buy gpu with the grunt/vram is not a valid option, as shown, 4090/7900xtx **** the bed for high res and high refresh rate gaming especially RT/PT)

 

[Nexus18]

Also to add :-

What's your preferred DLSS config?

In the past few months, DLSS has evolved into a suite of technologies that extend beyond mere "upscaling" NVIDIA users: we're curious... if a game fully supports all the available options, which ones would you choose? DLSS Upscaling, to achieve higher FPS, but with a lower render resolution...

www.techpowerup.com

And that's why I created this thread as explained, this threads poll is about what you use, not what you prefer:

As per poll:

- native
- fsr
- dlss
- xess

This is only for upscaling, not frame gen.

And in your post, post your config so for me:

gpu - 3080
res - 3440x1440 and 4k
reason you use your chosen upscaling tech or native - dlss provides better IQ and temporal stability than native in most cases whilst providing a substantial performance boost, it also exhibits less ghosting than native TAA implementations. Also, in combination with DLDSR, it can provide much better IQ than even my 4k display for clarity yet still perform similarly or better than just using dlss or native

As per usual, keep the fanboy crap out and in another thread.

EDIT:

This is purely for how and what you use in your day to day gaming (as in most of the time), not "preference". If you prefer native but use dlss, fsr, xess, you vote for whatever one it is that you use and don't vote for native. In your post, you can explain your preference to use native or upscaling for whatever reason.

As explained many times throughout the thread, point was to see if people do actually "use" upscaling tech or native for their average day to day gaming. It was never about preference as that is a pointless poll as everyone would prefer higher resolution, higher fps, higher bit depth, path tracing and so on.

 

[Nexus18]

It all depends your perspective at the end of the day. Plenty of you tubers can tell me how bad FSR is. However if I try it and it looks great I’m going to use it. And no I won’t be blowing up an image in paint shop pro and counting pixels. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Well yeah exactly, you should always try yourself to come to your own conclusion as shown, what matters in IQ, FPS and so on is extremely subjective and people value different things. Still screenshots in the grand scheme of things are rather pointless as it's in motion where FSR and native with no TAA fall apart in terms of temporal stability so that's why I will always take a TAA/DLSS output over a non TAA output i.e. this video shows why and where TAA produced images are awful:

But as also shown/explained, nowadays, sad reality is that games depend on TAA and gaming without some form of TAA is a no go unless you can get past the issues with shimmering, aliasing and jaggies (which some people don't mind and prefer over a softer image)

 

[Nexus18]

If you need upscaling you either need a new GPU, the game needs optimising, or you got too ambitious with your resolution

What gpu do you buy when even a 4090/7900xtx isn't providing high fps on a high res display? (3440x1440 @ 175hz and 4k60 are my displays) And it's not just for RT/PT but as shown, also plain old raster games. Or should we be dropping to 1080P monitors with such gpus to achieve high fps with high/max settings?

EDIT:

And either way, as shown, it's subjective, based on what I value for IQ, DLSS is the better way forward as it has the least issues compared to native with poor AA implementations so it's not even really a case of "need" from my POV, more a case of want or if there is no need for extra perf. then DLDSR + DLSS to get the best across the board.

 

[Nexus18]

Well yeah exactly, you should always try yourself to come to your own conclusion as shown, what matters in IQ, FPS and so on is extremely subjective and people value different things. Still screenshots in the grand scheme of things are rather pointless as it's in motion where FSR and native with no TAA fall apart in terms of temporal stability so that's why I will always take a TAA/DLSS output over a non TAA output i.e. this video shows why and where TAA produced images are awful:

But as also shown/explained, nowadays, sad reality is that games depend on TAA and gaming without some form of TAA is a no go unless you can get past the issues with shimmering, aliasing and jaggies (which some people don't mind and prefer over a softer image)

On this video, appears that blurbusters is also pushing this to be better addressed on the TAA basics:

TAA also makes games super blurry & its starting to be forced. - Page 2 - Blur Busters Forums

I deem the sphere of problematic GPU settings within the sphere of Display Comfort. Blur Busters has been a long-time beacon for motionblur-eyestrain people, and so now a Display Comfort forum has been started to aggregate these topics. I want this squarely in the radar of vendors (displays/GPUs and games).

I have reason to believe more than 10 NVIDIA employees now monitor the Display Comfort forum, after I brought this to their attention. I'm hoping AMD/Intel/Apple/etc starts paying more attention too. We have to acknowledge the big ergonomic rabbit hole of the wide variety of displays/sizes/GPUs/games are inflicting upon us.

 

[Nexus18]

Because considering it's provided gratis, you're always complaining it's not good enough, it's not paywalled, their Frame Gen isn't pay walled, it's all FREE to use and just because YOU don't need to use it, there is a massive user base that uses FSR-consoles inc the NV powered Switch, handhelds, anyone on non DLSS support...

Despite only using DLSS and never having the need for FSR, you complain over multiple threads expecting a FREE solution to compete head to head with a premium paid for solution.

Why shouldn't it be a conversation?

You are even using AMD Frame Gen to play CP on your 3080, and still complain.


Couldn't care less, I didn't pay for FSR.

Where as I bought and paid for the DLSS premium with my 2070/3070/3080/4070, I'd have to be an absolute moon howler to not expect it to be considerably better than the free version.



That's a you problem, I buy both.


I can't speak for anyone else, but my 79XTX is absolutely smashing high refresh 4K 65" QD-Oled FREEsync Premium couch gaming.

For RT/PT, that's what DLSS is designed for, upscaling playable frame rates.

Well here's the thing, it's not locked to specific gpus but at the end of the day, you are still technically paying for it, what do you think amd does with the profits they make? They invest it into R&D and where do you think these solutions come from? And what do you think funds their engineering efforts? Also, the fact that they "advertise" on the box and on the product pages means you are buying into the whole package, yes to use nvidias feature like dlss, you have to buy a capable gpu but it's foolish to think that amd aren't packaging the cost into the overall price of their gpus otherwise they would cease to exist, making software is not cheap/free.

BTW, you never answer when asked this, maybe this time though, how many games on the ps 5 and xbox have fsr implemented? Just I'm only aware of 3 titles?

My problem? So you mean to say I should buy an inferior product (imo) and hope that some day amd provide a good solution? Doesn't make much sense but ok....

Unless you have a special 79xtx, doesn't look like it would be doing the job to my eyes with some of the recent games I've played:

4k and 3440x1440

Another recent title with little/light RT and UE 5 (which is becoming ever more common now) and the best "optimised" UE 5 title to date yet no gpu at native is still enough:

Of course, could reduce settings but then that's my point, reduce graphical settings and run native TAA and get a worse experience as shown? No thanks.

This is b8

And this just proves most people still don't fully understand proper upscaling or are stuck in the past when upscaling was trash and that has never left their mindset, so this circles back to the first part of this line, they don't understand upscaling.

Fully agree, it's almost like a certain pc master race snobbery i.e. we're elite, we don't need any cheap software tricks!!!!

I fully get where people come from and at the end of the day, it is your hardware, run things how you want to but the fact that people prefer/use native and diss upscaling tech for said reasons then continue to use TAA @ native (which as shown in that video posted above, is the most common and usually the only AA method nowadays as well as there being no option to turn it off unless you go through config files and even then....) is hilarious.

Somewhat of topic i.e. not about upscaling but rather all this "fakery", blurbusters take on fake frames but a similar concept on "faking" things which cna be applied to upscaling:

Spoiler

Frame Generation Essentials: Interpolation, Extrapolation, and Reprojection - Blur Busters

Foreword by Mark Rejhon of Blur Busters: This article is co-written with a new guest writer, William Sokol Erhard, with some editing and section addendums by Mark Rejhon. There will be additional pieces coming out. Let's welcome William aboard! Introduction Advanced image temporal upscaling and...

blurbusters.com

Yesterday, “fake frames” was meant to refer to classical black-box TV interpolation. It is funny how the mainstream calls them “fake frames”;
But, truth to be told, GPU’s are currently metaphorically “faking” photorealistic scenes via drawing polygons/triangles, textures, and shaders. Reprojection-based workflows is just another method of “faking” frames, much like an MPEG/H.26X video standard of “faking it” via I-Frames, B-Frames and P-Frames.

That’s why, during a bit of data loss, video goes “kablooey” and turns into garbage with artifacts — if a mere 1 bit gets corrupt in a predicted/interpolated frame in a MPEGx/H26x video stream. Until the next full non-predicted/interpolated frame comes in (1-2 seconds later).

Over the long-term, 3D rendering is transitioning to a multitiered workflow too (just like digital video did over 30 years ago out of sheer necessity of bandwidth budgets). Now our sheer necessity is a Moore’s Law slowdown bottleneck. So, as a shortcut around Moore’s Law — we are unable to get much extra performance via traditional “faking-it-via-polygons” methods.

The litmus test is going lagless and artifactless, much like the various interpolated frame subtypes built into your streaming habits, Netflix, Disney, Blu-Ray, E-Cinema, and other current video compression standards that use prediction systems in their compression systems.

Just as compressors have original knowledge of the original material, modern GPU reprojection can gain knowledge via z-buffers and between-frame inputreads. And “fake it” perceptually flawlessly, unlike year 1993’s artifacty MPEG1. Even the reprojection-based double-image artifacts disappear too!

TL;DR: Faking frames isn’t bad anymore if you remove the “black box” factor, and make it perceptually lagless and lossless relative to other methods of “faking frames” like drawing triangles and textures

It's really like the old Crysis days, the game was the issue not the hardware. Turn down a few settings...in fact given the crazy prices it would almost make more sense to buy a lower res monitor just for those poorly optimised games.

Each to their own though, I just have my opinion, you do you and enjoy the fruits of your labour in whatever form is most enjoyable for you.

Most games and especially on launch, yes they are definetly the issue as shown in DF video yesterday but games nowadays are just a heck of a lot more demanding too and it's not necessarily because they are poorly optimised. I don't mind turning down settings and usually do with the ones that make no difference although wouldn't sacrifice settings where it makes a drastic difference.

 

[Nexus18]

It's really like the old Crysis days, the game was the issue not the hardware. Turn down a few settings...in fact given the crazy prices it would almost make more sense to buy a lower res monitor just for those poorly optimised games.

Each to their own though, I just have my opinion, you do you and enjoy the fruits of your labour in whatever form is most enjoyable for you.

BTW just on this point, with native and TAA in order to avoid the issues, you really wouldn't even be better of with a 1080p native display as with native AND TAA, you have to run a higher res. in order to compensate for TAA issues i.e. much like FSR, DLSS and XESS where it works best with higher resolutions/higher presets (although as shown, dlss handles this better across lower res. and lower presets but still not ideal given the nature of how this works).

Would recommend watching that video above as it covers it very well:

 

[Nexus18]

Would never be £699 though. Inflation and soaring costs of smaller manufacturing processes would mean it would probably be closer to a grand I would imagine.

Heck just look at amd gpus to get an idea on prices for no tensor cores, "free" upscaling/FG......

 

[Nexus18]

I would take a 7900XTX at £900 if it was 30% faster than a 4090 in raster.

If that were the case, amd would be charging more for their GPU.

 

[Nexus18]

Is it FSR to blame for the often soft as heck image in Alan Wake 2 even at supposedly 100% native resolution?

Must admit it becomes tempting to scale below 100% res for extra smoothness as the original image looks bad enough to start with that you don't notice any change. I think I heard the game has FSR on as it's AA method or something even at 100% res?

Then there's games like A Plague Tale: Requiem, which last I played had only its own in-engine resolution scaler (supposedly not FSR or DLSS). The game looked mint in native, and any drop in image scaling was unnoticeable after about 85%-90%, which is still good going.

Apologies if all the above is misinformation, just my casual observations about some non-RT scenarios where upscaling becomes viable / tempting when usually it wouldn't be.

Possibly FSR. What res and preset were you using?

FSR 2 and DLSS replace the native TAA implementation but it's roughly a simiilar concept.

Worth watching this:

FSR 2 may have been improved with an update iirc as it was originally very poor at release iirc but some sites had different takes:

Alan Wake 2 im Technik-Test: Pathtracing sowie AMD FSR und Nvidia DLSS im Detail

Alan Wake 2 im Technik-Test: Pathtracing sowie AMD FSR und Nvidia DLSS im Detail / Raytracing in der Analyse

www.computerbase.de

Alan Wake 2: FSR 2.2 vs. DLSS 3.5 Comparison Review

Alan Wake 2 is the second game to receive full support for NVIDIA's DLSS 3.5, which includes support for NVIDIA's DLSS Ray Reconstruction, Super Resolution, Frame Generation and DLAA. Also supported is AMD's FidelityFX Super Resolution. In this mini-review we compare the image quality and...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Nexus18]

They only charge based on what Nvidia do but the point I’m making was that RT + DLSS technologies are now costing the consumer around £700 extra on a GPU like the 4090 so if you could get a card like the 4090 without those features but with the die space instead being dedicated to faster raster so a further 30% faster than a 4090 for around £900 would you take that card over say the current 4070ti?

That is true, amd will follow nvidia as they have always done but they have said it themselves, they are not a budget option and a premium option and the "only" reason they don't charge as much or more than nvidia is because they aren't better (even if it is close in some areas or they lead in 1-3 areas out of several), if amd were comfortably better, they would more than likely be asking for more money. Part of the reason we have these technologies is because MLID is actually somewhat right, we are at a point we're hitting diminishing returns, that and the only way to really get playable path tracing (which is the next step in visuals) is as shown, with more efficient processes, which are not dictated by what is possible with the hardware we have access to now i.e. frame gen and upscaling.

Also, the 4090 isn't a great gpu to use as generally it is comfortably ahead in raster and non hardware RT compared to the 7900xtx, only a couple of games where the 7900xtx comfortably beats the 4090 i.e. COD

And to answer this question:

without those features but with the die space instead being dedicated to faster raster so a further 30% faster than a 4090 for around £900 would you take that card over say the current 4070ti

No as most games I've played over the last 3 years have RT of some form (only game I turned off RT because it is/was broken was for hogwarts) and it's only becoming more prevalent, that and I prefer the IQ/benefits of DLSS (and DLDSR when used) over native and would be nice to have FG for games where there is awful cpu optimisation.

Just had a look at the poll and dayum. The amount of people not using DLSS is unreal

Switch on DLDSR and DLSS fellas. At least give it a try over a few games. Don't listen to what people say about this or that. Trust your own eyes. That's what I did ages ago, way before anyone here was talking about DLDSR and now I rarely game without it.

I really want to make the poll more granular, would be very fascintating I think but alas, the usual lot wil cry "changing the outcome!!!!" 2 things that would be most interesting to me is to see if native nvidia owners are rtx or non rtx owners and also, if the native voters are using taa or no taa.

Looks like John may do a video soon on the TAA stuff:

 

[Nexus18]

Poll does not mention DLDSR

Nor TAA or no TAA options Complains about upscaling issues*

*uses TAA

 

[Nexus18]

Poll options I'm considering:

TAA + Native (RTX GPU owner)
Non TAA Native (RTX GPU owner)
TAA + Native (Non RTX GPU owner)
Non TAA Native (non RTX GPU owner)
DLDSR + DLSS
DLSS
FSR

Can't really have every possible option as it would look too messy and might as well remove the ones that have no votes to clean it up somewhat as it's clear no one except a small handful of amd owners use FSR and no need to seperate it by brand of gpu due to the non rtx and rtx aspect.

Welcome to other suggestions and of course if people will cry "trying to change the outcome" (even though it's impossible since the core options are still the same and in fact, will result in less votes for "dlss" due to the addition of dldsr.....) then I won't bother requesting the change.

 

[Nexus18]

Make a new poll. Leave this one be. Just make sure you think it through this time and don't amend it

Good idea, can then cross reference to this one!

Will wait to see if DF/John does a video on upscaling and TAA first though before creating a thread, given all the noise about TAA/upscaling in general going about now, I suspect we'll be seeing some video channels covering it perhaps, especially now that gamers who can't stand it are pushing at it from an "accessibility" pov, which will most likely get attention driven towards this from game devs.

I was using the high preset at 3440 x 1440 for Alan Wake 2.

A Plague Tale: Requiem I played at 4K.

In most games I think it'd be a different story with FSR if its presets didn't start at such a giant resolution drop. FSR and DLSS quality is 67% of native resolution. When the option for custom sliding resolution scaling is available, I usually don't tolerate going below 85%. A drop of 15% resolution can still result in a very meaningful performance increase at almost no image quality cost.

Depends a lot on the game especially with fsr since it is up to the devs to get the best from it, worth experimenting to see what works best. One thing to remember is that post processing effects negatively impact TAA and upscaling output so always worth turning them off.

Since you've finally discovered your thread was never about upscaling (for better performance)and was actually always about games with bad implementations of (t)aa where an upscaler(with better aa) is required to remove the TAA why not just start a new thread and discuss it instead of Frankensteining this one again.

You could even do a service and highlight the games that have the most image stability issues without looking for every opportunity to clap for NVIDIA. Another poll on taa won't do much as the decision will vary depending on the game ,how lazy the devs were and or game engine along with the resolution people play at etc.

A better question for use of an upscaler might have been if you don't achieve your desired frame rate in a game do you :
Lower settings before dlss/fsr/xess
Use dlss/fsr/xess then lower settings
Suffer with low frame rate
Don't play the game until you upgrade your gpu
*Add RTX/non-RTX options .

Make a decision about what you think your thread/poll is about and then stick to it.

The thread has and always will be about what "you use on a daily basis", again, nothing more than that and nothing to do with preference. The more granular options is to provide a better insight as to why though i.e. do nvidia owners use native because they can't use dlss and so on.

That would be a good poll though your suggestion and perhaps another thread for it.

I'll leave this poll/thread as is.

 

[Nexus18]

yes, "what upscaler you use on a daily basis". You got lost in your own thread from the very beginning. All your posts talk about is bad TAA and the use of DLAA, DLDSR+DLSS etc. But not in the context of upscaling

If you don't need more performance and you are looking for a better image stability to replace TAA an RTX owner could use
DLAA (not always available , may need mod to replace DLSS resolution with native)
or DLDSR+DLSS(requires additional steps for desktop res etc) or
DLSS to obtain better AA with the downside of having a lower render resolution. Will depend on the individual and monitor res if they notice this in game

I'm not sure why you are pushing those use cases as "upscaling" as only the last one is "upscaling" and its for the purpose of removing bad AA and not "upscaling"

No, the thread concept has never changed, the only thing that changed was wanting to get more insight into where the votes where coming from as hardly anyone followed the OP format of:

gpu - 3080
res - 3440x1440 and 4k
reason you use your chosen upscaling tech or native - dlss provides better IQ and temporal stability than native in most cases whilst providing a substantial performance boost, it also exhibits less ghosting than native TAA implementations. Also, in combination with DLDSR, it can provide much better IQ than even my 4k display for clarity yet still perform similarly or better than just using dlss or native

Most of the posts in the thread until the poll change was by amd users, hence, again, the specific change to have a nvidia and amd option for native...... Breaking the poll into options provided a better insight where the votes where coming from and also gives a better idea as to which gpu brand owners use upscaling more or not as much, if at all, as shown, people are more likely to use DLSS (if they can) over XESS and FSR for example. This is where I would at the very least like to change that part to see if the nvidia owners voting native simply can't use dlss and refuse to use FSR so the only option is native for them.

I'm not sure why you're trying to push other narrative for what this poll is about, it's quite simple really, you vote what you use on a daily basis of your gaming and it's designed in such a way to understand the reason for said votes, again, if people followed the above format, wouldn't have to provide such a granular poll......

DLAA is native resolution therefore it will never be an option.

There have been multiple discussion points throughout the thread about TAA, DLAA and so on, which are somewhat relevant to the poll.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how or what the final image output is achieved, you simply use what is best for your needs and whatever your reasons are but as shown via several sources with evidence (unless someone can debunk said sources with actual evidence other than "native is better" then there is no other reason to believe otherwise):

DLDSR > DLSS + DLDSR > Native and no TAA > Upscaling (more so DLSS) > Native + TAA

I also think you're missing the point I am putting across about TAA too, people say they don't want to use DLSS and so on because of the "issues" yet as evidenced, they say they will use native (which as shown, 90% of games have TAA now and cannot be forced off most of the time) thus they are getting a worse experience in terms of IQ and also not getting as good as performance running native + TAA

 

[Nexus18]

If that is how you game ,your poll never split native into with TAA and without TAA, therefore I assume you voted Native as your first 2 are not upscaling.

TAA deserves its own discussion as you are using upscaling to solve it instead of trying to address the actual issue.


If the point is about upscaling then I'm not missing it....... You are choosing to blast anyone that picked native with information about bad implementations of TAA. So again TAA is the problem not the render resolution or upscaling choice.

Because people are giving the reasons why they don't use upscaling I.e. "iq is super bad, native rules" hence why I'm curious are they then going to the length to disable taa? Cause if not, well as evidenced, they're in fact getting a worse experience by not using dlss or at least disabling taa at native.

As for the list there, that's just general consensus on what is best based on sites who do comparisons. If those were the options for said poll, my vote based on the poll of "what do you use most often" would still be dlss only due to better performance on my 3080 than using dldsr (dldsr + dlss perf is equivalent to native perf or sometimes slightly better), if I had a 4090, then dldsr + dlss would get the vote as I would use it more often since it has the performance for that. I would also choose native + taa over native and no taa as I rather have a softer/blurrier image over jaggies, shimmering/aliasing issues.

 

[Nexus18]

what people are saying that? or is this another one of the made of "some people posts"? You asked what upscaler people use. And because "some people" said native you highlighted how bad TAA is. So if anything it's you saying "NaTiVE sUckS , TAA bAD"

I'm not wasting my time going back through the thread to quote posts stating that. Also, the fact people also say, "no need to use it as I already achieve performance I need" indicates that people associate upscaling purely for gaining extra performance and nothing else, which then ties in with the points I and mrk make about people not really understanding the concept of upscaling etc. or/and insinuating that native has better IQ (which might very well be the case if you value clarity above all else and go out of your way to disable TAA [if you can])

That might be true but you don't know what resolution anyone is using or what games they are playing or if they even had access to DLSS. So banging on about "native sucks because TAA" is just trying to tell everyone they are wrong when you never provided that context in your question or possible answers.

maybe the people that chose native also prefer this? Or the games they play don't use TAA?

Hence why these options would tell the story much better but alas, the crying will still happen:

TAA + Native (RTX GPU owner)
Non TAA Native (RTX GPU owner)
TAA + Native (Non RTX GPU owner)
Non TAA Native (non RTX GPU owner)
DLDSR + DLSS
DLSS
FSR

So again, maybe better of to create a thread about bad TAA in modern games, what games are the biggest offenders, and what options people have to get around the issues with forced TAA as it will vary depending on the game ,gpu and resolution people use.

That's completely different to what this thread is for as you are then bringing a whole range of factors into play along with "preference".

Again, the thread poll is entirely down to how people game on a daily basis, nothing more. As per my very OP

This is purely for how and what you use in your day to day gaming (as in most of the time), not "preference". If you prefer native but use dlss, fsr, xess, you vote for whatever one it is that you use and don't vote for native. In your post, you can explain your preference to use native or upscaling for whatever reason.

This thread with the sudden poll-switch is a good demonstration that you need to carefully consider the questions you ask, or you might end up with an answer that you didn't want.

Anyway, I have a 7900XTX, which is capable of acceptable frame rates at 4k native, so that's what I use.

Rather the poll evolved because of the following "FACTS":

- people weren't posting as per the OP format
- majority of posts were from amd users

In order to get a better insight into where/who was voting what, the core options stayed the same but added options to do a better job as people didn't bother following the OP.....

You're most welcome to explain how the change to the poll was an effort to change the "outcome" as so far no one else has been able to answer this

 

[Nexus18]

So its another made up fact then.

kind of similar as to why you would use milk as a moisturizer because it tastes nicer when you drink it.

Yes, I agree the thread is about what upscaler you use. Not about the pros/cons of TAA in some games.

The poll evolved because it was always a loaded question in order to draw people out to criticize them for using native when "NAtive is bad, TAA sucks". But your op or poll doesnt take this into account. Third time lucky maybe.

You are happy to use upscaling to solve problems with TAA, but that doesn't address the actual issue with forced TAA in games.

Another made up fact The posts are right in this thread and also the usual suspects have posted their takes on this before many times so don't do the usual of fingers in ears because it doesn't fit your narrative. Tommy our dear member for example has always stated how 4k native on his qd oled 75" is king for IQ compared to "blurry dlss", maybe he plays old games all the time then? PS. generally if a game doesn't have taa then it won't have dlss etc. either because for such technology, it requires motion based vectors, which generally means, if said game has TAA, it has motion based vectors.

kind of similar as to why you would use milk as a moisturizer because it tastes nicer when you drink it.

Dodging the point then? Good to see the norm.

Yes, I agree the thread is about what upscaler you use. Not about the pros/cons of TAA in some games.

Emmm what..... You got to be trolling now or literally you are missing the point.....

The poll evolved because it was always a loaded question in order to draw people out to criticize them for using native when "NAtive is bad, TAA sucks". But your op or poll doesnt take this into account. Third time lucky maybe.

You are happy to use upscaling to solve problems with TAA, but that doesn't address the actual issue with forced TAA in games.

Again, you are obviously getting caught up in your own narrative now, read this post "thoroughly" again as I will simply be repeating the same point again......

No, the thread concept has never changed, the only thing that changed was wanting to get more insight into where the votes where coming from as hardly anyone followed the OP format of:



Most of the posts in the thread until the poll change was by amd users, hence, again, the specific change to have a nvidia and amd option for native...... Breaking the poll into options provided a better insight where the votes where coming from and also gives a better idea as to which gpu brand owners use upscaling more or not as much, if at all, as shown, people are more likely to use DLSS (if they can) over XESS and FSR for example. This is where I would at the very least like to change that part to see if the nvidia owners voting native simply can't use dlss and refuse to use FSR so the only option is native for them.

I'm not sure why you're trying to push other narrative for what this poll is about, it's quite simple really, you vote what you use on a daily basis of your gaming and it's designed in such a way to understand the reason for said votes, again, if people followed the above format, wouldn't have to provide such a granular poll......

DLAA is native resolution therefore it will never be an option.

There have been multiple discussion points throughout the thread about TAA, DLAA and so on, which are somewhat relevant to the poll.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how or what the final image output is achieved, you simply use what is best for your needs and whatever your reasons are but as shown via several sources with evidence (unless someone can debunk said sources with actual evidence other than "native is better" then there is no other reason to believe otherwise):

DLDSR > DLSS + DLDSR > Native and no TAA > Upscaling (more so DLSS) > Native + TAA

I also think you're missing the point I am putting across about TAA too, people say they don't want to use DLSS and so on because of the "issues" yet as evidenced, they say they will use native (which as shown, 90% of games have TAA now and cannot be forced off most of the time) thus they are getting a worse experience in terms of IQ and also not getting as good as performance running native + TAA

 

[Nexus18]

You have no evidence of that. And the 2nd poll still indicates majority of people have nvidia gpus. Kind of makes sense since nvidia have the largest share of the market.


You have the names of everyone that uses (prefers)native instead of upscaling.Tag them and explain to them why they voted wrong in your polls.

I have no evidence? Read the thread right up to when stanners posted saying he changed the poll..... majority of posts were amd users..... Again, you can do this, I'm not wasting my time.

And the 2nd poll still indicates majority of people have nvidia gpus

Well done, are we finally getting there?


Who would have thought, a thread/poll on how you game daily and changing it to be more granular would cause so much upset/anger No offence but it is just screaming that there is something about the results that you don't like and I'm honestly not sure what it is? As native is still "winning" overall (which it should be given the core options DID NOT change) so what's the issue exactly?

Or better yet, can you tell me what the issue will be with an updated poll of this:

TAA + Native (RTX GPU owner)
Non TAA Native (RTX GPU owner)
TAA + Native (Non RTX GPU owner)
Non TAA Native (non RTX GPU owner)
DLDSR + DLSS
DLSS
FSR

and before we get the usual answers:

"diluting the perception of the vote" - if all you pay attention to is a bar, then yeah that's your problem, there's a reason we learned math
"changing the outcome because not the answer you want to see" - explain how? maybe if native was removed entirely, yes, but it's not
"want dlss to come out higher" - if anything, dlss will get less votes as more will vote DLDSR + DLSS

 

[Nexus18]

So no evidence then.

I don't have any issue really, As as per usual you just scream about narratives. I don't have one....
I also don't care for the results, They don't tell me anything new. What would exactly would "winning" mean??

I just thought since most people voted already and the conversation was dead (other than you trying to tell people they were wrong for their choice) you might want to ask the right questions in a new thread/poll.
I also suggested you could discuss/highlight why forced TAA was bad (and possible solutions with pros/cons) in another thread instead of lumping it and getting lost in a poll about upscaling.

You can't boil the use of upscaling down to a singular decision as there is way to many variables to consider for each individual person. Even the type of panel used could have an influence someones perception of native/taa/dlss

As I said already you got lost in your own thread and are answering a different question than the one you asked in the poll. Even your op is garbled and makes no sense.


This is your problem, you pre-load your posts with stuff like this in order to bait people.


/end thread

Your evidence is in the thread at the start right up to stanners post. It's your choice to ignore it, not mine.

Well it's your posts that are making it out like there is some huge meaning to the intent of this thread, I made it pretty clear in the OP, here, again if you can't be bothered to go back:

This is purely for how and what you use in your day to day gaming (as in most of the time), not "preference". If you prefer native but use dlss, fsr, xess, you vote for whatever one it is that you use and don't vote for native. In your post, you can explain your preference to use native or upscaling for whatever reason.

If people chose to discuss DLAA, TAA etc. in the thread, that's fine as the thread is about native, upscaling etc. i.e. it's discussion based, this should have no impact to the vote in the poll, again:

how and what you use in your day to day gaming (as in most of the time), not "preference"

This really isn't rocket science and just comes across like you are reading too much into the thread, my posts/discussion with other members on various things in an attempt to try and second guess me? Or intentionally telling me that I have another narrative/agenda for the poll results?

Only thing I've said is that the people who choose to use native for the reasons of "don't need extra perf", "value IQ" are most likely getting a worse experience instead of using DLSS (assuming they can) as evidenced by several sources, nothing more.

This is your problem, you pre-load your posts with stuff like this in order to bait people.

How's it baiting? Those are the exact responses I have had when I asked what the reason for hating the poll change was and yet still no one can actually answer this (which we have had people state as being the reason I change the poll in the first place.....):

explain how the change to the poll was an effort to change the "outcome"

So I'm still waiting to hear how?

So can I presume that the proposed updated poll is good then?