How to get a career in programming

[Jonny L]

Hi Gents,

I'm looking for some advice and direction really.

I've finally decided which path I'd like to follow. I'd like to become a programmer/developer.

This is an area that interests me greatly, however, I have a couple of problems.

1. I've just finished university with an MA in Medieval History - neither a related or scientific subject.

2. I currently work full time as a hotel manager and have done for the last year, I have been with the company for 2.5 years. I cannot afford to leave this job to study so cannot do a full time course (my full time masters has almost killed me).

I have A levels in maths, physics and history, with an AS level in chemistry.

Also I'm 23 if that makes any difference?

Basically I'm looking for advice on how to get into the industry, what if any qualifications I should attain, and is it possible to teach myself from books/videos etc?

I would ideally like to learn Java and then another complimentary language. Would this be doable and would it provide me with the breadth of knowledge to perform at least an entry level role?

I had thought about maybe creating a portfolio alongside a blog. Would this be beneficial?

Thank you for any input!

 

[lordhughes]

Ruby could be a good place to start as you can then expand into Ruby on Rails for web stuff and it will give you a good understanding of OOP and procedural programming which can be carried forward to Java, C# etc ... I say ruby over java because java can be a bit of a bitch to start with, very unforgiving and big complex IDE's, Ruby you can get started with notepad++ and a terminal window.

It is best if you think of a project you want to do and then make it, if its something you have an interest in it will be much more enjoyable.

Creating a blog can be beneficial as it will show some knowledge, although actually creating the blog using a framework such as code igniter, Ruby on rails etc ... will get you much further than using wordpress (to give an example).

maybe give this a read http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/

 

[Addicted]

Ruby could be a good place to start as you can then expand into Ruby on Rails for web stuff and it will give you a good understanding of OOP and procedural programming which can be carried forward to Java, C# etc ... I say ruby over java because java can be a bit of a bitch to start with, very unforgiving and big complex IDE's, Ruby you can get started with notepad++ and a terminal window.

It is best if you think of a project you want to do and then make it, if its something you have an interest in it will be much more enjoyable.

Creating a blog can be beneficial as it will show some knowledge, although actually creating the blog using a framework such as code igniter, Ruby on rails etc ... will get you much further than using wordpress (to give an example).

maybe give this a read http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/

I can't echo that point enough!

 

[Randomface74]

9 out of 10 software companies won't hire you without a degree in computer science. If this is not an option your only other option is to find a job as a trainee programmer. Trainee programmer jobs pay very little - so you'll probably have to take a pay cut from hotel manager.

Teaching yourself is fine - but it's not going to prepare you for actual work. I'd say go for C#.NET.

Having a portfolio might help you get an interview, if your work is good, but you're not the position to decide whether your work is good - so it's probably a waste of time.

Being a programmer is VERY stressful, but I imagine managing a hotel isn't particularly fun either. Expect to do some job-hopping to get career progression.

FTR - I graduated 2007 1st Hons BSc Internet Computing. I lead a team of developers as of 2012. This is quite a rare (lucky) situation.

 

[Addicted]

9 out of 10 software companies won't hire you without a degree in computer science. If this is not an option your only other option is to find a job as a trainee programmer. Trainee programmer jobs pay very little - so you'll probably have to take a pay cut from hotel manager.

Teaching yourself is fine - but it's not going to prepare you for actual work. I'd say go for C#.NET.

Having a portfolio might help you get an interview, if your work is good, but you're not the position to decide whether your work is good - so it's probably a waste of time.

Being a programmer is VERY stressful, but I imagine managing a hotel isn't particularly fun either. Expect to do some job-hopping to get career progression.

FTR - I graduated 2007 1st Hons BSc Internet Computing. I lead a team of developers as of 2012. This is quite a rare (lucky) situation.

Any tips for getting there? (Don't mind a trust message if needed).

Graduated last year and got my first job, been here nearly a year, but looking to progress up .

 

[agent_paul]

Also I'm 23 if that makes any difference?

Nope, it doesn't

Basically I'm looking for advice on how to get into the industry, what if any qualifications I should attain, and is it possible to teach myself from books/videos etc?

I recon its rather difficult to get into any industry when you have no experience in it. It's very much possible to teach yourself from book and videos. For the moment I wouldn't bother with any qualifications, just pick up a language and learn as much as possible. Once you've picked up enough, hopefully a potential employer will find you and give you a chance.

I would ideally like to learn Java and then another complimentary language. Would this be doable and would it provide me with the breadth of knowledge to perform at least an entry level role?

I'd ask why Java and even why are you thinking of getting into the software dev industry?! Unfortunately from my experience, you would need more than just Java + 1 other thing to get a job.

I had thought about maybe creating a portfolio alongside a blog. Would this be beneficial?

Yes, it would give you a chance to show off your skills and help you learn stuff


I got into Java web dev back in 2005/6 and I spent about 6 months part time learning a range of subjects so that i can be a rounded developer. The things i learnt back then were:

Java 5
SQL
CSS/HTML
ANT
Subversion
Struts
EJB
Hibernate
Cruise control

you probably dont need to know a lot of these things (depending on what type of developer you want to be) but i thought i'd give a list of the sort of things you could read up (and its not a definitive list) on if you want to be a java web dev

 

[Randomface74]

Any tips for getting there? (Don't mind a trust message if needed).

Graduated last year and got my first job, been here nearly a year, but looking to progress up .

My first job sucked, so I hopped for more money. Turned out I joined a small company about to enter some serious growth. As long as you know everything about the product, and do your job well, eventually there are teams that need leaders and it falls into place.

 

[kkelly]

Check :- http://www.codecademy.com/

Get a few ideas of simple projects that would make your currently job a bit easier, see if you like it

You can always do night school or open uni, I finished my degree at night school due working full time but got there in the end

 

[lordhughes]

My first job sucked, so I hopped for more money. Turned out I joined a small company about to enter some serious growth. As long as you know everything about the product, and do your job well, eventually there are teams that need leaders and it falls into place.

I plan to hop companies once I have 2 years experience under my belt, more money hopefully a better position, current company has very limited scope for progression so for someone just starting out its fine but could not imagine being here longer than 2 years. If I get as lucky as you, is another thing

 

[Cambofrog]

Whatever resources you choose to learn from you will need to practice.

Write code, then more code.

Don't worry about writing perfect code the first time round. You will learn from your mistakes.

Even if you are an experienced programmer, programming is an iterative process and you will often refactor your code.

 

[Jonny L]

Thank you for the input guys it is much appreciated.

To answer a few questions.

I'd like to be a developer because I enjoy problem solving and would also like a job where I am able to be part of a creative team. I only wish I'd had the presence of mind to take computer science at university instead of history (which I have loved doing but leaves me in this predicament).

I mainly considered java as there seems to be a large market for it, however, I am open to all suggestions. Also there seems to be a good list of qualifications for it available from the oracle site. I'm under the impression you can skip the course and just take the exams?

As for the income such a career would initially generate. I am quite happy to take a pay cut to move into something like this. My current salary is not what you would call large, I receive very few benefits and work an average of 60 hours a week, often more (including the early hours some days, depending on functions etc). I would be able to survive in the first instance with anything over £15,000. Is this a realistic basic salary to expect?

With regards to stress I would imagine I would cope quite well because of my experiences in my current role and my masters. I've had to become an expert in time management, organisation and working methodically.

Thank you also for your suggestions of other languages to start with, I'll have to sit down this evening and have a proper look at these.

A project is a great idea, thanks lordhughes, I'll have to put the grey matter into dreaming up something useful.

All of this is so helpful lads, please keep it coming.

 

[agent_paul]

In terms of salary, I would expect anything between 20k - 25k if your a noobie moving into the Java EE space.

The jobs that i've had so far don't give that much creativity. So if this is a big driver for you, you might want to look into something like frontend development instead and maybe design.

 

[Jonny L]

In terms of salary, I would expect anything between 20k - 25k if your a noobie moving into the Java EE space.

The jobs that i've had so far don't give that much creativity. So if this is a big driver for you, you might want to look into something like frontend development instead and maybe design.

Thanks for the info mate.

By creative I mainly mean the process of making something, rather than in the artistic sense. I'm no artist believe me .

I've always wanted a job with a real end goal and a product that lasts.

This is one of my main gripes with my current job. I go to work and we do a function for 150 people. We serve their food and drink, run the day, and at 3am we clean up and come back six hours later to do it all again.

edit: kkelly thank you for the code academy link I've just had a quick flick through and it looks like a great resource for a beginner like myself.

 

[lordhughes]

In terms of salary, I would expect anything between 20k - 25k if your a noobie moving into the Java EE space.

I would have capped at 20k for someone without a degree , unless they had some very good professional qualifications under their belt.

 

[lordhughes]

Thanks for the info mate.

By creative I mainly mean the process of making something. Rather than in the artistic sense. I'm no artist believe me .

I've always wanted a job with a real end goal and a product that lasts.

This is one of my main gripes with my current job. I go to work and we do a function for 150 people. We serve their food and drink, run the day, and at 3am we clean up and come back six hours later to do it all again.

Again you will find a lot of your time is in maintenance, not in creating new sexy product, not very creative I assure you. If you want to be creative web development may be more for you.

 

[Randomface74]

20-25k sounds like something you *might* get as a graduate, rather than what you'd get as a trainee. 15k is probably about right.

 

[agent_paul]

20-25k sounds like something you *might* get as a graduate, rather than what you'd get as a trainee. 15k is probably about right.

I suppose your right. The issue is that most employers give too much weight to degree's when what they should be looking at is the individual and experience. I guess location will also make a big difference to salary too.

 

[Diagro]

A degree in maths is a saught after thing for programmers... as tge two go hand in hand.

 

[neocon]

you can start making iphone/android apps your bedroom.
i have no computer science qualifications but i do vba and sql coding at work.

 

[agent_paul]

A degree in maths is a saught after thing for programmers... as tge two go hand in hand.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Maybe for certain programming jobs like in the finance sector but for most I recon for no.

You do need a decent grasp of maths but certainly not to the degree level