how to pick an AIO

AsetekDennis · 22 Jan 2019 at 17:15

MartinPrince said:
I would surmise that it is uncommon as nobody I've ever known who has used a CLC has confused fan noise with pump noise. What they tend to do is isolate the pump noise by briefly disabling or turning off all the fans in the system. Once again, as in the case of getting out air bubbles, not difficult to do.

Point taken, for sure. Guess I'll have to try running some different gen pumps in our sound proof chamber and see what that gets me of first hand impressions

Will allow me to see if there's a generational difference on pumps as well

doyll · 23 Jan 2019 at 11:43

AsetekDennis said:
Point taken, for sure. Guess I'll have to try running some different gen pumps in our sound proof chamber and see what that gets me of first hand impressions

Will allow me to see if there's a generational difference on pumps as well

How many different pumps are you using in your CLCs?
Could you give us the different pump specifications? Specifically their flow rate and lift.

AsetekDennis · 23 Jan 2019 at 11:56

doyll said:
How many different pumps are you using in your CLCs?
Could you give us the different pump specifications? Specifically their flow rate and lift.

There are, to my knowledge, three different pumps in use. Gen 4, 5 and 6.
Any information that I'm allowed to disclose on pumps will be available here.
I realize that our website hasn't been updated for quite a while, but we're working on it, and it's coming soon

Gee · 23 Jan 2019 at 12:51

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the newer Corsair AIO's (H115i Pro, H150i Pro etc.) are the only Asetek units using a Gen6 pump, which IIRC has a better impeller and coldplate.

The NZXT and EVGA units are both gen 4.5/gen5 I believe.

AsetekDennis · 23 Jan 2019 at 12:54

Gee said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the newer Corsair AIO's (H115i Pro, H150i Pro etc.) are the only Asetek units using a Gen6 pump, which IIRC has a better impeller and coldplate.

The NZXT and EVGA units are both gen 4.5/gen5 I believe.

That is correct

doyll · 23 Jan 2019 at 13:01

AsetekDennis said:
There are, to my knowledge, three different pumps in use. Gen 4, 5 and 6.
Any information that I'm allowed to disclose on pumps will be available here.
I realize that our website hasn't been updated for quite a while, but we're working on it, and it's coming soon

Sorry, but I don't even see any specifications listed for even one of those pumps, not even their power rating, rpm, noise level, etc that is in each CLC model specs. Why are there no lift and flow rate specifications? Alphacoo OEM give these pump specs. Swiftech does too .. Enermax, CoolIT, Cooler Master, and ID Cooling CLCs by other OEM publish pump flow rate. You publish the airflow rate and static pressure of yoru fans, so why don't you (Asetek) supply consumer the flow rate of your pumps too? About the only pump specs you give is current load rating and RPM.

I have seen flow 61L/h flow rate specification for Thermaltake Water 2.0 Performer which is an Asetek 545LC

AsetekDennis · 23 Jan 2019 at 13:31

doyll said:
Sorry, but I don't even see any specifications listed for even one of those pumps, not even their power rating, rpm, noise level, etc that is in each CLC model specs. Why are there no lift and flow rate specifications? Alphacoo OEM give these pump specs. Swiftech does too .. Enermax, CoolIT, Cooler Master, and ID Cooling CLCs by other OEM publish pump flow rate. You publish the airflow rate and static pressure of yoru fans, so why don't you (Asetek) supply consumer the flow rate of your pumps too? About the only pump specs you give is current load rating and RPM.

I have seen flow 61L/h flow rate specification for Thermaltake Water 2.0 Performer which is an Asetek 545LC

As I mentioned. Our website has not been updated for quite a while. We're in the progress of making sure that it gets the love that it deserves.

I will put your requests on the list, as well as a note that it is community requested, and hopefully they'll be able to get those numbers in there as well

doyll · 23 Jan 2019 at 13:47

AsetekDennis said:
As I mentioned. Our website has not been updated for quite a while. We're in the progress of making sure that it gets the love that it deserves.

I will put your requests on the list, as well as a note that it is community requested, and hopefully they'll be able to get those numbers in there as well

Updating website has nothing to do with it.

What the specifications of your pumps is what I want to know. The reality is there is no logical reason to not publish the flowrate and heat/lift of your pumps .. unless maybe you (Asetek) is ashamed and/or afraid that if consumer knew how bad these CLC pumps are they wouldn't sell.

This is the same kind of marketing as I complained bout with all the 'water cooling' hype without telling consumer how much different CLCs are from custom loops .. or even AIOs.

Sorry for being so blunt / borderline rude. You are only the messenger, but you as Asetek's messenger are the only one we have to yell at.

Gee · 23 Jan 2019 at 14:13

doyll said:
Updating website has nothing to do with it.

Have you not thought that updating their website may involve them including pump flow rates?

AsetekDennis · 23 Jan 2019 at 15:29

doyll said:
Updating website has nothing to do with it.

What the specifications of your pumps is what I want to know. The reality is there is no logical reason to not publish the flowrate and heat/lift of your pumps .. unless maybe you (Asetek) is ashamed and/or afraid that if consumer knew how bad these CLC pumps are they wouldn't sell.

This is the same kind of marketing as I complained bout with all the 'water cooling' hype without telling consumer how much different CLCs are from custom loops .. or even AIOs.

Sorry for being so blunt / borderline rude. You are only the messenger, but you as Asetek's messenger are the only one we have to yell at.

Doyll, I'm not sure what to say at this point.

We're absolutely, in no way, shape or form ashamed of our products. Quite the opposite.

As I told you, I've brought it to the appropriate people. Fingers crossed we can have this information on our website update.

I hope you can see my side of this as well

Gee · 23 Jan 2019 at 16:11

AsetekDennis said:
Doyll, I'm not sure what to say at this point.

We're absolutely, in no way, shape or form ashamed of our products. Quite the opposite.

As I told you, I've brought it to the appropriate people. Fingers crossed we can have this information on our website update.

I hope you can see my side of this as well

doyll has been on an anti-CLC/AIO campaign on here for years, as well as OCN and various other forums. It's extremely boring.

Ross Thomson · 23 Jan 2019 at 16:28

Gee said:
doyll has been on an anti-CLC/AIO campaign on here for years, as well as OCN and various other forums. It's extremely boring.

you not enjoying his new thing of trying to tell people that not all AIO's are CLC's lol

doyll · 23 Jan 2019 at 20:50

Gee said:
Have you not thought that updating their website may involve them including pump flow rates?

What we have is years and years of Asetek marketing of CLC with little to no performance specifications for any gen of pump. We have a long history of not publish specifications, so no reason to think 'updating their website' will give us any more technical specifications than we now have.

AsetekDennis said:
Doyll, I'm not sure what to say at this point.

We're absolutely, in no way, shape or form ashamed of our products. Quite the opposite.

As I told you, I've brought it to the appropriate people. Fingers crossed we can have this information on our website update.

I hope you can see my side of this as well

Sorry, but by not publishing pump specifications like flow rate and lift are link not publishing a fans airflow rate and static pressure.

Like I said, you are being caught in the middle here.

Gee said:
doyll has been on an anti-CLC/AIO campaign on here for years, as well as OCN and various other forums. It's extremely boring.

Indeed I do push air over CLC, because users can get as good or better cooling performance for less money, with less noise and better dependably. And when CLCs are competitively priced, cool as well at similar noise levels and are as dependable as air coolers I will back them as much as I back air coolers.

Ross Thomson said:
you not enjoying his new thing of trying to tell people that not all AIO's are CLC's lol

Seems you are one of the few who does not understand the difference. AsetekDennis read my reply to OP and understood what the differences are. Yet you even after reading my explainations many times to many different people can't seem to grasp the simple differences between AIOs that are CLC and those that are not.

MartinPrince · 23 Jan 2019 at 22:47

There are those people that give opinions and those that give facts (or at least evidence based reasoning). I can not argue against anything Doyll has said in this thread whereas those who seem to be criticising him are engaging in argumentum ad hominem.

Ross Thomson · 24 Jan 2019 at 08:22

doyll said:
Seems you are one of the few who does not understand the difference. AsetekDennis read my reply to OP and understood what the differences are. Yet you even after reading my explainations many times to many different people can't seem to grasp the simple differences between AIOs that are CLC and those that are not.

The only difference that is relevant is that you plug and play with an AIO compared to a custom loop. The fact that some have fill ports or the ability to expand doesn't change anything or make me care.

doyll · 24 Jan 2019 at 12:40

MartinPrince said:
There are those people that give opinions and those that give facts (or at least evidence based reasoning). I can not argue against anything Doyll has said in this thread whereas those who seem to be criticising him are engaging in argumentum ad hominem.

Thank you. It's amazing how many want to criticise the bearer of truths based on facts as if an opinion is all that matters.

Ross Thomson said:
The only difference that is relevant is that you plug and play with an AIO compared to a custom loop. The fact that some have fill ports or the ability to expand doesn't change anything or make me care.

That's fine with me. I do not force you to read my posts or to buy anything based on facts versus your opinion. But the fact is an AIO having threaded fitting, a fill port, a copper radiator and a pump that manufacturer gives us the performance specifications versus a CLC that is sealed in such a way no servicing or repairing can be done and manufacturer give no performance specifications represents a significant difference in product. Something even Asetek rep AsetekDennis commended me for pointing out. His acknowledgement of the difference between AIO that are not CLC and CLCs and the fact he is a member of the biggest manufacturer of CLCs in the world (I would venture to guess at least half of all CLCs are Asetek OEM) says volumes to me .. compared to your opinion barely making a mark at end of sentence in a footnote.

The fact you don't care only shows your don't care, not the fact one is definitely different than the other.

AsetekDennis · 25 Jan 2019 at 06:32

doyll said:
What we have is years and years of Asetek marketing of CLC with little to no performance specifications for any gen of pump. We have a long history of not publish specifications, so no reason to think 'updating their website' will give us any more technical specifications than we now have.

I don't mean to ignite a new discussion here, but Doyll, you and I already agreed, that in fact there wasn't any Asetek marketing. But rather OEM marketing - which are two different entities

Hopefully we'll be much better in the future about publishing more specifications

doyll · 25 Jan 2019 at 12:29

AsetekDennis said:
I don't mean to ignite a new discussion here, but Doyll, you and I already agreed, that in fact there wasn't any Asetek marketing. But rather OEM marketing - which are two different entities
Hopefully we'll be much better in the future about publishing more specifications

First of I don't understand your sentence.
You (Asetek) is the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) of Asetek made CLCs. You say Asetek does no marketing then say Asetek does OEM marketing. Marketing is the same be it done by you (Asetek) or by company who slaps their brand name on your products.

I agree, your product is marketed by company who's brand is on your CLCs, but you (Asetek) do market your product. That is basically what your website is, a marketing tool.
https://www.asetek.com/
You advertise what companies sell your products, so there is no reason for those same product pages to not have specifications including pump flow and lift in by clicking the 'view details' that pops up to click when cursor is on image.

Isn't your use of twitter also marketing?
https://twitter.com/asetek?lang=en

AsetekDennis · 25 Jan 2019 at 14:41

doyll said:
First of I don't understand your sentence.
You (Asetek) is the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) of Asetek made CLCs. You say Asetek does no marketing then say Asetek does OEM marketing. Marketing is the same be it done by you (Asetek) or by company who slaps their brand name on your products.

I agree, your product is marketed by company who's brand is on your CLCs, but you (Asetek) do market your product. That is basically what your website is, a marketing tool.
https://www.asetek.com/
You advertise what companies sell your products, so there is no reason for those same product pages to not have specifications including pump flow and lift in by clicking the 'view details' that pops up to click when cursor is on image.

Isn't your use of twitter also marketing?
https://twitter.com/asetek?lang=en

Slight mishap on the early hours of the day on my part. What I meant, to say is that we sell solutions, and brands choose how to market these solutions.

However, I think it might be wise to leave it here

We've obviously got different opinions about CLC's and AIO's... and that's great!

doyll · 25 Jan 2019 at 16:10

AsetekDennis said:
Slight mishap on the early hours of the day on my part. What I meant, to say is that we sell solutions, and brands choose how to market these solutions.

However, I think it might be wise to leave it here We've obviously got different opinions about CLC's and AIO's... and that's great!

True, but as I said before you do have Asetek website with all the companies you make coolers for listed .. complete with 'view details' but no details are given.

You original post here was:

Slight mishap on the early hours of the day on my part. What I meant, to say is that we sell solutions, and brands choose how to market these solutions.

Doyll, I really want to get along and have a constructive dialogue. But at the moment it is very difficult, as it seems your only intention is to turn every single "word out of my mouth" against me.

Let's for the sake of argument, agree that our website is marketing, and that our limited activity on Twitter is also considered marketing. I have a very strong feeling however, that this is not the root of your discontent. This is what I want to get to, why you are so discontent with CLCs?
-From what I gather you're opposed to it from a cost/benefit standpoint, and that's entirely fine with me Everyone is entitled to their opinion and decide where they perceive value

Now the whole keeping on about the lack of flow, rpm etc. information. I've given you an answer, I'm trying to provide a solution, and hopefully within a somewhat reasonable timeframe. Isn't this a step in the right direction? I mean, it should be better than status quo, right?

You answered your own question.

Like I've said before but maybe you missed it. I don't like CLCs because all I have tried (and that is quite a few) had noisy pumps, noisy fans, hosing so stiff it was hard to manipulate when trying to fit block and radiator .. all combined with a retail price higher than an air cooler with similar or better cooling ability making less noise and at a lower price.

Like I said, I have posted similar reasons in our conversation.

As for Asetek not publishing pump performance specs, you are the victim of Asetek bureaucracy. I'm sure I'm not the only one who as a potential customer wants to know information Asetek is not providing you with, so when we ask you are SOL because your employer won't give you what you need to satisfy our request for performance specs.

I have no problem with you as an individual. My problem is with a company (Asetek) that refuses to give us (consumer) performance specs. but instead spends money on half-truth marketing to draw in the uninformed consumer.

I'm used to products being marketed with performance specifications proudly displaced front and center, like some component H2O companies still do. Other manufacturers doing this are CPU, fan, PSU, GPU, etc. But CLC OEM and brands including Asetek do not. Maybe Asetek having you (an employee) is a step in the right direction and with your help many they will give us the pump/waterblock specifications. I sure hope so.